Some Pixel owners still can't dial 911 during an emergency • Hacker News Board

Re: Some Pixel owners still can't dial 911 during an emergency

#261

Post by KirillPanov » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 9:17 AM UTC

simfree wrote: post #248

radicaldreamer wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone could put all of these reports together along with the paper trail of unresolved complaints to Google through discovery and likely end up with a great class action case or even a criminal negligence case. 911 is one of those things that absolutely must work and most phones will allow you through using any available network if you are out of range of your primary carrier. The fact that this is unreliable on an…

911 obviously doesn't have to work given the blatant disregard Google has had for 911 performance over multiple phone generations. I consistently had 911 calls fail on my Pixel 6, which led me to get rid of that device. Some Public Safety Answering Points (PSAPs) also give zero shits about call answer time, NG911, 911 via text, or even consistently working E911. E911 provides a static address to the public safety ans…

> 911 obviously doesn't have to work given the blatant disregard Google has had

Revoking all of their FCC approvals will fix this problem, and right quick.

Use of the PCS cellular spectrum is conditioned on several things; spectrum purchase by a carrier is necessary but not sufficient. Correctly-functioning emergency calling is one of the other conditions.

Re: Some Pixel owners still can't dial 911 during an emergency

#262

Post by taway1237 » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 9:56 AM UTC

evilduck wrote: post #158

mlyle wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It shouldn't be too expensive, but before you put in equipment and pretend to be the phone network, you need to make sure that you're hitting regulatory limits on the amount of RF leaking out. Doing a good enough job to hit that above a gigahertz--- including things like conducted RF, and validating with measurements-- is gonna cost a bit more than you describe.

Fine, for permitting and regulations and inspections, let’s 100x the cost and say it’s an annual expense too. This is still well within Google’s budgets to provide to their Android teams.

This discussion is moot btw. Google already has faraday cage and bts equipment, at least in the London office (6ps) where a large part of the Android team is located. And obviously so - the costs involved are a rounding error for Google. The problem must be somewhere else.

Re: Some Pixel owners still can't dial 911 during an emergency

#263

Post by taway1237 » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 10:04 AM UTC

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #252

londons_explore wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I rarely even make a phone call anymore This is true for many young people. Turns out phone calls are pretty much the only time the earpiece speaker gets used on a phone. Lots of people have killed their earpiece speaker by filling it with sand, salt, water, lint, etc. Speakers seem to die more easily when never used, presumably because use vibrates dirt out. End result: When they call 911 they can't hear anything.…

1) Facetime 2) People listening to any audio will use the earpiece speaker

I only ever listen to audio on my phone through my headphones (no exaggregation, 100% of time during last 5 years). I guess in case of an emergency I won't have time to connect them before the call. I also don't use facetime. So for me the GP remark is certainly true.

Re: Some Pixel owners still can't dial 911 during an emergency

#264

Post by taway1237 » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 10:12 AM UTC

lost_tourist wrote: post #258

milosmns wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another anecdotal example here: Nexus 4, Pixel 2 XL, Pixel 4 XL, Pixel 6 Pro – never had any issues whatsoever, all phones still alive and kicking at my grandparents' places. Yes, most of them tied to the wall now... but hey, they're fine for showing some photos and displaying current time or setting alarms. Interestingly, I also used Samsung's Note 9 and 10+, iPhone 12, iPhone 14 Pro Max – daily, also with no issues…

I had two pixels suffer heat deaths on me (after random boot cycles) switching around iphone 8 time and haven't had a problem out of the 3 devices I've owned from them. Got tired of Android being weird plus relaying everything I did on the phone to google to share with 3rd parties.

I own Pixel 4a for a few years now (I bought it when it was quite new, now it's EOL). I never had any software or hardware problems, and it's my favourite phone I ever had.

(we can keep the anectodal evidence going, but not sure what's the value in that. People clearly have different experiences, and the selection of people reading comments about a Pixel issue is likely far from random).

Re: Some Pixel owners still can't dial 911 during an emergency

#265

Post by taway1237 » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 11:53 AM UTC

charcircuit wrote: post #210

kkielhofner wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Omnipresent use of 911 has been arguably the most impactful killer app since cell phones first emerged over 40 years ago. It has saved countless lives. In the days of not having a landline this is completely unacceptable. To have issues utilizing 911 from a cellular device in 2023 is exactly the kind of thing regulators should make painful for device manufacturers who can’t even get this right. What’s even more puzzl…

>has been arguably the most impactful killer app since cell phones first emerged over 40 years ago. I strongly disagree. Most people aren't buying a phone so that they can use 911. It isn't a killer app.

Because it's so obvious. I didnt't think about dialing 112 when buying my phone, but if I knew my phone can't call it I'd carry a small, second "emergency" phone that can at all times. Or buy another phone.

Re: Some Pixel owners still can't dial 911 during an emergency

#266

Post by rabbits_2002 » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 12:06 PM UTC

tsunamifury wrote: post #60

I will say I have had plenty of similar issues across my iPhone devices. For a variety of reasons these phones fail to make calls. Drop calls or can’t dial 911. I suspect voice calling itself has become network deprioritized or still has trouble selecting between calling tech. I worked on dialer for pixel and and am deeply familiar with these problems. Voice call tech is easily one of those mostly worthlessly convolu…

If that were true there would probably be news articles about it like this one. I do not believe you.

Re: Some Pixel owners still can't dial 911 during an emergency

#267

Post by TheHappyOddish » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 2:03 PM UTC

prmoustache wrote: post #228

TerrifiedMouse wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A few months later I’m surprised you kept the phone. I would have gotten a new phone if I discovered my current one couldn’t dial 911 properly.

Well, how many times in your life do you call 911? I am in my forties and I maybe used my local equivalent 3 times and in every occurence someone else could have made the call. And I've only used my mobile phone since my late 20's, it is not like I buy smartphones for emergency purposes.

> it is not like I buy smartphones for emergency purposes

How strange. That's the main reason I expect most people (especially on HN) would own a mobile phone at all. The ability to be contactable/make contact in an emergency is the greatest value it holds, surely?

Re: Some Pixel owners still can't dial 911 during an emergency

#268

Post by TheHappyOddish » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 2:06 PM UTC

clnq wrote: post #246

exabrial wrote: post #71

When I had a Pixel4, I witnessed a car accident in which someone got hurt quite substantially. Hard as a tried, the process of dialing 911 failed multiple times; the phone app simply crashed and left me with a blank screen or the home screen. I put a complaint in with my carrier but nothing was ever done. And of course Google could give 0 fucks with their customer support. A few months later, I needed to call 911 for…

My colleague once told me that the reason telecom providers took so long with Android software updates was because they had to verify that the phone meets regulatory requirements after the update. One of these requirements was being able to dial 112 (Europe's 911) very thoroughly. There was a legally prescribed process (by BNetzA, IIRC) for doing that in Germany. After a quick Google search, it seems like there is so…

> 112 (Europe's 911)

Small point, but many (most?) countries support 112, and it's definitely worth knowing as "911" likely won't work outside of the US.

Re: Some Pixel owners still can't dial 911 during an emergency

#269

Post by TheHappyOddish » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 2:11 PM UTC

tsunamifury wrote: post #60

I will say I have had plenty of similar issues across my iPhone devices. For a variety of reasons these phones fail to make calls. Drop calls or can’t dial 911. I suspect voice calling itself has become network deprioritized or still has trouble selecting between calling tech. I worked on dialer for pixel and and am deeply familiar with these problems. Voice call tech is easily one of those mostly worthlessly convolu…

> I suspect voice calling itself has become network deprioritized or still has trouble selecting between calling tech.

Whilst this may be true for normal voice, almost universally emergency calling is the highest network priority[0], knocking other voice and data sessions off another carriers tower if required.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_telephone_number#Eme...

Re: Some Pixel owners still can't dial 911 during an emergency

#270

Post by pks016 » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 5:24 PM UTC

VTimofeenko wrote: post #260

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How are you doing this? Dialing an emergency has never happened to me by accident on Android or iOS. I wish I could tell you. As far as I can tell, there's no way, either on my watch or my phone, to figure out retroactively why it automatically dialed 911. I know the Emergency SOS feature allows dialing 911 with some sequence of power button presses, but I don't think I was pressing the crown on my watch at the tim…

I had my Pixel 5 dial 911 once at random. There was a tiny piece of debris stuck in the power button that triggered the call. A couple of blasts with a compressor and this hasn't happened since.

I had the same issue with my Pixel 5. I booked an uber one time and suddenly it dialed 911. Have to switch off the phone. Most tensed 30 mins of last winter. Later figured out the issue with power button; works fine till now.