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Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

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Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#41

Post by em-bee »

a1o wrote: post #31
noirscape wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proton is Wine with some extra patches; the main project has some pretty hefty requirements in terms of coding standards to reduce possible regressions, which means that on the whole it can be pretty slow to get compatibility. Gaming is just one subsection of the Win32 API that doesn't touch on all parts of said API. Proton basically has a bunch of extra patches that might introduce a regression in upstream Wine but…

CodeWeaver is the major force behind wine, wine devs that aren't volunteers are employees of CodeWeaver, aren't they?

most likely, although by now they also may be employees of valve. but valve is also working with codeweaver.

btw: i consider codeweaver somewhat the unsung hero of the linux desktop.

there is no other company in this world that stakes their success entirely on the success of the linux desktop, or maybe on the demise on the windows desktop, because wine is the only software tool that will never ever be useful running on windows.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#42

Post by Am4TIfIsER0ppos »

tru1ock wrote: post #13

I bought a modest gaming rig in 2016 and used systemd/loginctl to convert it into a multiseat setup. One seat for myself and one for the rest of the family. The amount of value I got so far from this setup is unbelievable. Part of that is proton taking off and giving me and my kids access to most games on steam. Very grateful to all involved that made it possible. Still running ubuntu that have just been upgraded ove…

Would you recommend any particular guide for setting up multiseat?

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#43

Post by cacois »

kibwen wrote: post #30

Windows is enshittifying so rapidly that I firmly believe that, if Valve really wanted to, they could eat Microsoft's lunch when it comes to the non-enterprise desktop market, which is almost exclusively gamers these days. Fortunately for Microsoft, Valve seems content to officially position and market SteamOS as just for its handheld, even though it's entirely possible to run it on other hardware.

I am continually in awe of how rapidly terrible its gotten since Windows 7. I loved Win7 - it just worked, with a sleek presentation. Every release after was worse overall (I'm not saying good features weren't added, mind you - but the aggregate experience has been worse with every release for me).

(Note: I fully realize Win7 had a ton of windows warts under the hood - I'm just talking about the user experience)

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#44

Post by [deleted] »

mcv wrote: post #4
zem wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just to be pedantic, the valve devs are absolutely open source contributors, they just happen to be paid to do it.

It's great that Valve is willing to pay them for it. It's a bit sad that such capital investment from a commercial party is necessary, but I can live with that. As someone who has just switched to Linux gaming, I've got to say it's working great. Maybe it's slightly less stable, but not by much, and performance is excellent.

[deleted]

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#45

Post by colordrops »

arp242 wrote: post #34
em-bee wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i didn't check but i believe the major part of the extra mile is fixing 1000s of tiny little bugs that break games. it should be possible to verify that by looking at the wine changelog. the rest is creating a smooth experience downloading and running games. smoother than any alternative (like playonlinux or lutris)

Wine has worked surprisingly well for a long time, well before Valve got involved, although compatibility was never perfect of course (and still isn't!) I don't think they had to "fix 1000s of tiny little bugs that break games". Codeweavers has been selling commercial Wine-based solutions for a long time. It's easy to offer a better experience if you also own the actual storefront; that was kind of my point. And as I…

Codeweavers selling a commercial product is a major sign that the "community edition" of wine is not up to snuff.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#46

Post by MrDrMcCoy »

lucideer wrote: post #39
tw04 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already tried that, it was a failure. https://venturebeat.com/games/valve-unveils-13-partners-for-... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_Machine_(computer)

On top of the sibling commenter's point (that timing is everything - a 2015 failure doesn't guarantee a 2023 failure), Steam Machine wasn't the same as what the gp is suggesting. Steam Machine was a PC-like piece of hardware aimed at competing in the console market. The gp is suggesting a gamer-oriented piece of software aimed at competing in the consumer OS market. The latter is definitely not something Steam Machin…

Steam Machines had the option of running early versions of SteamOS, which Valve sorta pushed and most manufacturers ignored. SteamOS was pretty rough back then.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#47

Post by gpderetta »

arp242 wrote: post #27
JodieBenitez wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Proton is basically just Wine, right? That's the thing with desktop linux: almost everything already exists. But there's always an extra mile to go. Sometimes it's tiny bugs, sometimes it's bad default settings, sometimes it's questionnable UI... all things that may not be a problem for tweakers but will stop people that want a good out-of-the-box experience. I'm glad commercial companies go that extra mile. But ye…

The major bit from "extra mile" here being "adding a button in their proprietary vendor lock-in platform".

The significant extra bit missing was DXVK(and VKD3D), whose development is financed by Valve and, for various reasons is still not part of Wine.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#48

Post by em-bee »

arp242 wrote: post #34
em-bee wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i didn't check but i believe the major part of the extra mile is fixing 1000s of tiny little bugs that break games. it should be possible to verify that by looking at the wine changelog. the rest is creating a smooth experience downloading and running games. smoother than any alternative (like playonlinux or lutris)

Wine has worked surprisingly well for a long time, well before Valve got involved, although compatibility was never perfect of course (and still isn't!) I don't think they had to "fix 1000s of tiny little bugs that break games". Codeweavers has been selling commercial Wine-based solutions for a long time. It's easy to offer a better experience if you also own the actual storefront; that was kind of my point. And as I…

describing wine as some sort of semi-usable half-working project before their involvement is rather inaccurate

i disagree. wine worked, but many games didn't. fixing that is mostly valve's doing. and in my opinion the wine experience is still inferior compared to steam.

the problem is very much one of perception. 90% of the work that went into wine was already there. but the remaining 10% of work that was missing make up 90% of the impression of how well it is working. (the numbers are made up, but i hope you get my idea. it's the general linux desktop problem. the desktop is functional and stable, but the impression of it isn't because of a few small issues that just seem to bother many people)

so by attacking these remaining issues, valve is making a significant contribution.

i think it is also important that valve is able to apply patches before they make it into wine, because that means these patches see way more testing than the wine project probably would be capable of on their own. which is another reason that makes vales work significant.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#49

Post by danielheath »

arp242 wrote: post #34
em-bee wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i didn't check but i believe the major part of the extra mile is fixing 1000s of tiny little bugs that break games. it should be possible to verify that by looking at the wine changelog. the rest is creating a smooth experience downloading and running games. smoother than any alternative (like playonlinux or lutris)

Wine has worked surprisingly well for a long time, well before Valve got involved, although compatibility was never perfect of course (and still isn't!) I don't think they had to "fix 1000s of tiny little bugs that break games". Codeweavers has been selling commercial Wine-based solutions for a long time. It's easy to offer a better experience if you also own the actual storefront; that was kind of my point. And as I…

I used wine for many years. "Semi-usable half-working project" was entirely my experience; nearly everything I tried to run had at least one weird bug.

The proton work is open source (and readily installable without using the storefront), so you can actually just look and see that they did, in fact, fix many little bugs that break games - perhaps only many hundreds, rather than thousands.

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