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Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

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Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#31

Post by a1o »

noirscape wrote: post #20
arp242 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Projects like WINE tried, but there's just not enough you can do only with open-source contributors, with such a massive undertaking. Proton is basically just Wine, right? Aside from that CodeWeavers has been doing commercial Wine development for a long time. Almost all of Wine already existed before Valve got involved. Yes, they help out too, and that's great, but people are hugely over-crediting Valve (and here,…

Proton is Wine with some extra patches; the main project has some pretty hefty requirements in terms of coding standards to reduce possible regressions, which means that on the whole it can be pretty slow to get compatibility. Gaming is just one subsection of the Win32 API that doesn't touch on all parts of said API. Proton basically has a bunch of extra patches that might introduce a regression in upstream Wine but…

CodeWeaver is the major force behind wine, wine devs that aren't volunteers are employees of CodeWeaver, aren't they?

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#32

Post by tw04 »

kibwen wrote: post #30

Windows is enshittifying so rapidly that I firmly believe that, if Valve really wanted to, they could eat Microsoft's lunch when it comes to the non-enterprise desktop market, which is almost exclusively gamers these days. Fortunately for Microsoft, Valve seems content to officially position and market SteamOS as just for its handheld, even though it's entirely possible to run it on other hardware.

They already tried that, it was a failure.

https://venturebeat.com/games/valve-unveils-13-partners-for-...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_Machine_(computer)

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#33

Post by saidinesh5 »

I'm so happy to be wrong about how Proton/Wine taking over might result in a suboptimal user experience for gaming on Linux.

On my Deck, I couldn't care less if the game was a native Linux version or runs via. proton. The experience is so smooth. And more and more game developers are willing to get their games to run on Linux now.

It is honestly nice to see so many famous tech youtubers pushing videos on how to get Steam OS to run on their gaming devices. Thanks to Valve for changing the Gaming Landscape on Linux.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#34

Post by arp242 »

em-bee wrote: post #28
arp242 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The major bit from "extra mile" here being "adding a button in their proprietary vendor lock-in platform".

i didn't check but i believe the major part of the extra mile is fixing 1000s of tiny little bugs that break games. it should be possible to verify that by looking at the wine changelog. the rest is creating a smooth experience downloading and running games. smoother than any alternative (like playonlinux or lutris)

Wine has worked surprisingly well for a long time, well before Valve got involved, although compatibility was never perfect of course (and still isn't!) I don't think they had to "fix 1000s of tiny little bugs that break games". Codeweavers has been selling commercial Wine-based solutions for a long time.

It's easy to offer a better experience if you also own the actual storefront; that was kind of my point.

And as I said, I'm sure Valve contributes; but describing wine as some sort of semi-usable half-working project before their involvement is rather inaccurate.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#36

Post by 4death4 »

arp242 wrote: post #29
4death4 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve is a contributor, so that’s not an entirely true statement. And I was replying to your original statement that “Proton is just wine”, which again, is not true.

I never said "Proton is just wine". I said "Proton is basically just Wine". Leaving out that qualifier makes a big difference.

Basically means: “in the most essential respects; fundamentally.” So in this case, no, omitting the word basically makes no meaningful change to the meaning of your sentence.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#37

Post by saidinesh5 »

tw04 wrote: post #32
kibwen wrote: post #30

Windows is enshittifying so rapidly that I firmly believe that, if Valve really wanted to, they could eat Microsoft's lunch when it comes to the non-enterprise desktop market, which is almost exclusively gamers these days. Fortunately for Microsoft, Valve seems content to officially position and market SteamOS as just for its handheld, even though it's entirely possible to run it on other hardware.

They already tried that, it was a failure. https://venturebeat.com/games/valve-unveils-13-partners-for-... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_Machine_(computer)

It is not as much of a failure as just a product released at the wrong time. Most of Steam Deck is basically what lessons Valve has learned with that experiment - Steam Input, Proton, Steam Link (?).

Now that the ecosystem is more mature, there is again some interest towards it. A lot of tech reivew youtubers are now making content on how to get Steam OS to run on X device (X = GPD Win, low profile gaming PC etc..). Honestly, It is good enough to meet most of my "non technical" friends' requirements for their "Home Theater" PC.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#38

Post by em-bee »

dininski wrote: post #2

It's good to see an assumption I had, be validated. The assumption was that Linux would struggle to make a dent in the desktop market until it managed to make a tempting proposition for gamers. Projects like WINE tried, but there's just not enough you can do only with open-source contributors, with such a massive undertaking. I'm happy that a big company is finally backing this effort and with nvidia open-sourcing th…

the interesting thing for me is that my assumption was that linux gaming would not pick up until the desktop experience of installing and using games would improve, but i somehow missed that creating a separate "game desktop" would do the trick. i didn't consider before that it absolutely makes sense to keep games in their own environment which does make the task a bit easier.

but this also validates another assumption of mine, that it would take funding probably driven by commercial interest (and here i was thinking of companies like redhat) to fix this.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#39

Post by lucideer »

tw04 wrote: post #32
kibwen wrote: post #30

Windows is enshittifying so rapidly that I firmly believe that, if Valve really wanted to, they could eat Microsoft's lunch when it comes to the non-enterprise desktop market, which is almost exclusively gamers these days. Fortunately for Microsoft, Valve seems content to officially position and market SteamOS as just for its handheld, even though it's entirely possible to run it on other hardware.

They already tried that, it was a failure. https://venturebeat.com/games/valve-unveils-13-partners-for-... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_Machine_(computer)

On top of the sibling commenter's point (that timing is everything - a 2015 failure doesn't guarantee a 2023 failure), Steam Machine wasn't the same as what the gp is suggesting.

Steam Machine was a PC-like piece of hardware aimed at competing in the console market. The gp is suggesting a gamer-oriented piece of software aimed at competing in the consumer OS market. The latter is definitely not something Steam Machines tried and/or failed at.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#40

Post by maccard »

ajvs wrote: post #16
maccard wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The assumption was that Linux would struggle to make a dent in the desktop market until it managed to make a tempting proposition for gamers. I don't think that assumption has been validated, and I don't see that from this article. The premise of this article isn't that the steam deck is taking market share, it's that it's increasing compatibility of games on linux. More to the point, the steamdeck hasn't made a de…

Linux is now more popular than OSX according to those statistics. That's a decent milestone, and it's only going to grow as enshittification forces further downgrades in user experience, freedom and privacy in commercial OSes.

> Linux is now more popular than OSX according to those statistics.

Linux is more popular than OSX _on steam_ according to those statistics.

> it's only going to grow as enshittification forces further downgrades in user experience, freedom and privacy in commercial OSes.

I think you're wrong here. Take a look at the wayback machine [0] for a history of this data. There was absolutely 0 growth in linux use over the past decade until last year. The thing that changed wasn't enshittifaction, it was a piece of hardware that provided a good user experience. It's nothing to do with windows/mac getting worse or less privacy focused, it's valve providing a smooth usable product that _happens_ to run linux. I'm curious if Proton's success causes a decrease in windows users and an increase in other distros, but right now that's not what we're seeing.

[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20230000000000*/https://store.st...

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