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WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

jamesbvaughan.com

381–390 of 675 posts

Re: WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On planes? Seriously? Where?

Recently on a 3 hour flight with ROM air I had to pay for water... not even a single glass for free. Was quite shocked.

Not only that but at the Beijing airport there were no water refill stations and the bottle of water I bought at the airport POST-security was confiscated upon boarding. Fortunately I was boarding an airline with free water, though.

Re: WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

#382
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WiFi signal is received by both. Packages are ignored if they are not requested by either one of the systems. You can also receive anyone else's packages while you are using your internet but ignoring the ones you don't need. (If interested try aircrack-ng.)

Only if it’s unencrypted, of course. Rarely the case nowadays.

Your computer will still receive the packets from the radio layer, it just won't have the right key to decode the other recipient's traffic.

Re: WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

#383
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just use the hotspot on your phone?

I believe that you can't both simultaneously provide wifi hotspot and use wifi internet (at least, I couldn't on a phone several years ago last time I tried it). I think you can only do that if the network the phone is using is accessed via the cellular modem.

Correct. My GL-E750 Mudi has a repeater function:

https://docs.gl-inet.com/router/en/3/setup/gl-e750/internet/...

My iPhone does not.

Re: WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plane is measuring altitude , which is relative to a reference point, unlike elevation which is relative to sea level. And if the altitude is determined by pressure sensor, musn't it be relative to the ground directly below the plane, anyway? (Although personally, I agree with the sibling comment that the variability is likely an artifact of the sensor resolution.)

When you climb to the top of Mt. Everest, the air pressure is about 1/3 of what it is at sea level even though you're standing on the ground.

Yeah, you make a very good point. Fortunately the blast radius of my scientific hubris is limited to whatever code I manage to deploy to the internet, and I'm not involved in designing or building aircraft.

btw: Aren't you the guy who tracks planes flying in circles? I follow you on Twitter. Such a cool project!

Re: WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

#385

When my son was younger - maybe 9 or 10 or so, we were on a plane and he was using his phone and I looked over his shoulder and realized he was on the internet... but I hadn't paid for an internet plan. I said, "son, how are you using the internet?" He said, "oh, a kid at school showed me - if you go here" (he opened up the wifi settings where the DHCP assigned IP address is) "and start changing the numbers, eventual…

Legend, your kid is a legend

Re: WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

#386
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just use the hotspot on your phone?

I believe that you can't both simultaneously provide wifi hotspot and use wifi internet (at least, I couldn't on a phone several years ago last time I tried it). I think you can only do that if the network the phone is using is accessed via the cellular modem.

I absolutely can, that's how I connect my ps4 to my uni accommodation internet as it's mschapv2 or smth the ps4 can't connect to. I know it's definitely using the wifi and not my mobile data as my data usage for the day is unchanged after I've downloaded a game.

Cheap Chinese android phone from 2020 (or maybe 2021 can't remember).

Re: WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

#387

I'm an Alaska (relatively) frequent flyer. That airline offers a free "messaging" plan, that lets you send and receive messages on apps like iMessage, Facebook Messenger and Whatsapp. Though, it somehow prevents images/attachments from coming through on those platforms. I've always wondered how this is implemented technically, and if it might be possible to setup some kind of protocol/wrapper to send data that looks…

Probably 10-15 years ago when wifi on airlines was still pretty brand new I remember a fun hack for free Internet that involved Google Translate. Because the wifi landing pages used Google Analytics, they allowed traffic through from many of the Google domains. You could then go to Google translate and translate the website from English to English and use it as sort of a proxy server to get free Internet.

This hack often works today to get around paywalls.

Re: WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite how it works. These are the instruments we are referring to not the ability of pilots. In fact in RVSM airspace the autopilot must be used. Instruments must be very accurate given the reduced separation in RVSM airspace. Often on modern aircraft multiple altimeters are compared and voted to provide a single output provided to the displays and autopilot.

That's missing the point. If a human can manage to keep it within 100 feet of a desired altitude, an autopilot most certainly can; it didn't require new technology in the 2000s. Autopilots in the 1960s/1970s weren't seesawing all over the skies.

RVSM is overwhelmingly about instrumentation accuracy and precision, not pilot capability. [0]

The pressure difference between 5K MSL and 10K MSL at standard conditions is 14.6 kPa.

The pressure difference between 30K MSL and 35K MSL at ISA is 6.3 kPa.

For a given amount of aircraft-to-aircraft variability in their precision altitude sensing equipment, the resulting difference in actual altitude is more than double in RVSM airspace than in the lower altitude range above.

That's the reason for RVSM: there is less change in pressure with change in altitude, coupled with a very busy altitude range (such that controllers would have an operational need to pass traffic overhead with only vertical separation rather than being able to use vectoring to achieve lateral separation between aircraft).

It's not a linear relationship, but if I take an airplane with a 0.75 kPa absolute error in one direction and pass traffic with a 0.75 kPa absolute error in the other direction 1000' indicated above them, at low altitude, that 1.5 kPa total error is a little over 500 feet while IFR-IFR separation is 1000 feet minimum outside of RVSM. (These aircraft would likely be right on the border of passing a non-RVSM static system check.)

If I take those same two aircraft into the mid flight levels and pass one over the other at 30K and 31K feet, the total error is around 1200 feet, which is why non-RVSM aircraft cannot be separated by 1000 feet in RVSM airspace, because you don't know that they'll miss each other.

Improve the accuracy and precision of the static system and improve the examination criteria, making the airplane RVSM-capable, and now you can pass that traffic over each other at 1000' of indicated separation and be sure they'll miss.

[0] - There is a pilot training requirement, which is focused on knowing the rules for RVSM and does not involve a checkride.

Re: WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

#390
post #295

When my son was younger - maybe 9 or 10 or so, we were on a plane and he was using his phone and I looked over his shoulder and realized he was on the internet... but I hadn't paid for an internet plan. I said, "son, how are you using the internet?" He said, "oh, a kid at school showed me - if you go here" (he opened up the wifi settings where the DHCP assigned IP address is) "and start changing the numbers, eventual…

That's an amazing anecdote! The state of "open Wi-Fi" security is actually really sad. I'm not aware of an easy way for the airline to actually do better than this! I suppose they could use Opportunistic Wireless Encryption [1] and bind session authentication to that (i.e. authenticate a given OWE session, not a given MAC address) if the device supports it, as at least modern Apple devices do? But I have no idea how…

You can always use an open network to generate passwords for the proper internet connected WPA-EAP network (along with some in-flight multimedia like some carriers do). Extra step for sure but it solves the problem.

PS: I'm a couch expert so I have no idea if there's a problem with this idea.

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