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Kickstarter: rails.app

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Re: Kickstarter: rails.app

#101

Post by ryan-allen »

I think crowd sourcing is a great idea. Being a professional programmer doesn't mean doing it for 120 hours a week. I'm more than happy to throw a little bit of money at something like this to have a good job be done of it.

Open source is amazing! But people have to eat. If people with great ideas and the ability to execute have to pull a contracting gig to pay their rent which takes away from important side-projects, I think that's a shame.

I'd like to see more things like this. If it means more high quality open source that helps people and saves them time, then great! I have donated $25 to this project. The direct impact it will have on me when it's complete is:

* I will be able to get designers/front-end developers up and running on a reliable rails setup without much hassle to myself. * It's very likely they'll be able to set it up themselves. * Programmers from other environments might be playing with Rails in 10 minutes on a weekend, enough to whet an appetite that will potentially give us a broader pool of developers to hire from.

This is great! Crowdsourcing is great! I hope he raises the cash required to focus on this and I can't wait for the result.

Re: Kickstarter: rails.app

#102

Post by [deleted] »

sanderjd wrote: post #91
blhack wrote: post #72

Please excuse the language, but what the fuck is happening to our world right now? What the hell has happened to "I want to build something, so I'll build it"? Now you have to [1]pay $100 for the privilege of reading the mailing list for an open source project? And some guy needs $25,000 just to start it? Guys this is...not good. Can you imagine if apache's kickstarter never got funded? If the linux kernel's didn't?…

This is such an intriguing comment. I thought you were standing on reasonably logical ground (even if I disagree) until this part: ...What in the world is the difference? If anything it makes more sense to fund work that is actually useful than work that is simply beautiful or interesting.

[deleted]

Re: Kickstarter: rails.app

#103

Post by swah »

blhack wrote: post #72

Please excuse the language, but what the fuck is happening to our world right now? What the hell has happened to "I want to build something, so I'll build it"? Now you have to [1]pay $100 for the privilege of reading the mailing list for an open source project? And some guy needs $25,000 just to start it? Guys this is...not good. Can you imagine if apache's kickstarter never got funded? If the linux kernel's didn't?…

But isn't this "unused" money in the system that folks are happy to give away for increasing the probability that something they need gets done?

Re: Kickstarter: rails.app

#104

Post by iamgilesbowkett »

indirect wrote: post #84
iamgilesbowkett wrote: post #52

I have several problems with this. The first, and most important, is here: http://xkcd.com/927/ The second is personal, so please take it with a grain of salt. I pointed out that Yehuda's Bundler gem has an automated condescension feature; if you try to use it without saying 'source :rubygems,' it heckles you and mockingly asks you 'did you mean to say source :rubygems? if so please go back and type it in.' this is p…

Bundler's "condescension" was a real error message, albeit a terse one. I expanded it 18 days ago. If you think it's still condescending, please suggest a better way of phrasing the error. https://github.com/carlhuda/bundler/commit/abdc6374bd18488d0...

what I felt was rude was not the thing Bundler said but the thing Bundler does. if you know people are expecting rubygems to be the default, you don't tell them "oops you forgot to type rubygems, sucks to be you." you just make it the default.

you had an issue open for this on GitHub but it was closed with very little explanation. mind if I reopen it?

Re: Kickstarter: rails.app

#105

Post by pirateking »

tptacek wrote: post #8

I'm interested in whatever Yehuda Katz comes up with, but I've been a Rails dev at a Mac shop since 2007? and I have never been too frustrated by getting Rails running. Does anyone here have specific problems? From my experience, it really has been a matter of "gem update --system; gem install rails".

Getting a rails dev environment setup used to be pretty painful, but thanks to a bunch of great tools (brew, rvm, rb-env, bundler, pow), and many blog posts, things are much better now than in the past. I can easily get brew, ruby, rails, Xcode, zsh, emacs and my entire dev environment set up on a brand new computer in a few hours these days (bounded only by network and CPU), and then get to work right away.

It is a different story for someone completely new. When I have time to sit down and help my brother and friends interested in getting started building websites, I recommend Rails (or Sinatra these days). The entire first session is usually devoted to helping configure their environment, and explaining the various tools they may need to know about when they are on their own. This is before even getting to the bit about learning HTML, CSS, Javascript, and Ruby. All of this is usually a complete waste of time because they have most likely lost me after typing in "cd" or "mkdir" for the first time. Yehuda's proposal nicely solves the configuration step for a beginner (the only class of developer for whom I think it is a seriously debilitating problem), but that is really the least of worries for someone new to web development in this day and age.

Re: Kickstarter: rails.app

#106

Post by iamgilesbowkett »

adriand wrote: post #73
iamgilesbowkett wrote: post #52

I have several problems with this. The first, and most important, is here: http://xkcd.com/927/ The second is personal, so please take it with a grain of salt. I pointed out that Yehuda's Bundler gem has an automated condescension feature; if you try to use it without saying 'source :rubygems,' it heckles you and mockingly asks you 'did you mean to say source :rubygems? if so please go back and type it in.' this is p…

Giles, you're acting like a prima donna over what is really a minor quibble with the way Bundler works. How many people do you honestly think get hung up on a warning from Bundler that gives you clear instructions on what to do next? And I know you like to exaggerate things to make a point, but do you really think that warning was added to heckle and mock people? Because that's ridiculous. I can tell you one thing: t…

well yeah. here you are making this personal, and what I said is I'm not going to give Yehuda any money because I criticized his PROJECT and he responded with 'fuck you giles.' so he made it personal, and you're making it personal too.

I'm not saying Bundler should be destroyed and it's a thing of evil. I said it was super useful but had very aggravating flaws which indicate that Rails went off the rails. If you guys can back off from all the making things personal about me for five minutes you might actually notice that "Rails went off the rails and is no longer entirely true to its original principles" is not such a vicious thing to say.

But is "fuck you giles" a response which is going to prevent you from getting my money? Yes, of course it is.

Re: Kickstarter: rails.app

#107

Post by jeremymcanally »

nikcub wrote: post #95
tptacek wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What this is is Yehuda Katz, who has built a reputation with contributions to open source products over many years, realizing that his market value is better than "kudos" on some website. The alternative to stuff like this is Yehuda Katz writing code for some startup that you will never see. Here's Katz finding a way to make a business out of writing open source... ... and this is a bad thing? What's wrong with you ?

Lots of companies hire people to work on open source projects. It is how most of it gets written. He could probably get a job where working on this is part of it in a heartbeat. (not that I disagree with this project or method, I think he should do the same as what Google Appengine does with its installer - it is seriously awesome)

He did, actually. Much of the work he did on Merb and Rails 3 was generously funded by Engine Yard.

Re: Kickstarter: rails.app

#108

Post by mattetti »

tptacek wrote: post #77
blhack wrote: post #72

Please excuse the language, but what the fuck is happening to our world right now? What the hell has happened to "I want to build something, so I'll build it"? Now you have to [1]pay $100 for the privilege of reading the mailing list for an open source project? And some guy needs $25,000 just to start it? Guys this is...not good. Can you imagine if apache's kickstarter never got funded? If the linux kernel's didn't?…

What this is is Yehuda Katz, who has built a reputation with contributions to open source products over many years, realizing that his market value is better than "kudos" on some website. The alternative to stuff like this is Yehuda Katz writing code for some startup that you will never see. Here's Katz finding a way to make a business out of writing open source... ... and this is a bad thing? What's wrong with you ?

You seem to forget that he has almost always be paid for his contribution: * Merb / Rails - EngineYard * Sproutcore / Ember - Strobe (and via contract work)

I myself struggle with the concept of asking $25k to build what he wants to build. But at the end of the day what I think doesn't matter what I think or how many people disagree. If enough people agree with him and support him, then the project will happen. If you don't like the idea, just don't give your money. If you are worried this attitude becomes a trend then be active and release your stuff differently.

Re: Kickstarter: rails.app

#109

Post by toast76 »

aaronblohowiak wrote: post #96
toast76 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something that would be personally valuable for me. He could just as easily build this and sell it on the App Store; I'd buy it too. Instead I'll donate so you can get it for free. Who says OSS has to be all about altruism and self-sacrifice? Btw.. http://railsinstaller.org/ was funded by EngineYard... I'm not sure I see the difference?

railsinstaller is windows only.

I meant "not sure I understand why people didn't get their knickers in a twist with railsinstaller" :)

Re: Kickstarter: rails.app

#110

Post by philwelch »

tptacek wrote: post #77
blhack wrote: post #72

Please excuse the language, but what the fuck is happening to our world right now? What the hell has happened to "I want to build something, so I'll build it"? Now you have to [1]pay $100 for the privilege of reading the mailing list for an open source project? And some guy needs $25,000 just to start it? Guys this is...not good. Can you imagine if apache's kickstarter never got funded? If the linux kernel's didn't?…

What this is is Yehuda Katz, who has built a reputation with contributions to open source products over many years, realizing that his market value is better than "kudos" on some website. The alternative to stuff like this is Yehuda Katz writing code for some startup that you will never see. Here's Katz finding a way to make a business out of writing open source... ... and this is a bad thing? What's wrong with you ?

If Yehuda Katz' market value is too high to build this kind of thing without sponsorship, then maybe someone else can build it gratis and he can save his time and energy for paying work.
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