In the anglosphere (or may be just america) "think of the children" has lead to a lot of these sorts of issues. Child abuse is the worst thing anyone could imagine, and so, how could anyone over-react? How can any action be enough? May be some figures or entities take advantage of this, but there is some sincere motivation in these drives too. And now, we have issues like this article, children not being allowed unat…
A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy
581–590 of 639 posts
Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy
#582Once my kid cut his butt cheek falling off his bike (to this day I don't know how). I brought him to the hospital for sutures, and was asked to live the room while he was questioned. I felt very uncomfortable, and almost guilty, while this lasted for all of 5 minutes. I cannot imagine losing custody of your child while he's in an emergency situation for a couple months. This must be a nightmare.
> was asked to live the room while he was questioned Is that even legal ? Anyone trying to get between my kids and I is going to have a very bad day.
Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy
#583Earlier quoted context omitted.
Something similar happened recently in Massachusetts with a doctor seeing an injury the parents couldn't explain and the kid being taken away for a while. Injury turned out to probably have been done by the grandparents who never told the parents because the kid didn't fuss, but the kids were taken away in the middle of the night. https://www.nbcboston.com/investigations/massachusetts-dcf-e...
My first inclination here is to blame the doctor. Per the Hippocratic Oath, doctors need to understand the implications of making reports like this and only do so in cases where there isn't reasonable doubt or plausible explanations other than abuse. Separating children from parents and making accusations like this is extremely traumatic in itself, so the evidence bar needs to be very high. Even if the rules tell doc…
That’s the law.
At the same time, reporting doesn’t guarantee or even suggest any outcome. Most reports end up as entries in a database and nothing more.
Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy
#584This always scared me because I don't even know what counts as shaking. Can you accidentally shake a baby? Can my 2 year old daughter get shaken baby syndrome when older children on an inflatable castle with her jump and bounce too wild around her (she can't jump yet but loves the bouncing)? I've also often seen parents throw their children a bit in the air and then catch them. The children like it and laugh. I'm not…
Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy
#585“ Let there be no misunderstanding on the point that shaking is an absolutely real and dramatic form of child abuse. Inflicted head trauma is a devastating condition and a definite cause of traumatic brain injuries, including intracranial hemorrhage. Many medical determinations of SBS/AHT are made on children who have effectively been victims of violent intentional trauma. Prevention efforts against all forms of chil…
The article seems to be dedicated to precisely the opposite conclusion. The author's contention would seem to be that in cases of shaking there is other trauma that doesn't fit the "shaken baby syndrome" theory.
Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy
#586Earlier quoted context omitted.
You must have skimmed the article because it said over and over that it was basically impossible to definitively identify that a baby was shaken. It's a diagnosis they use when they're not sure.
It does not say that.
> And yet, although subdural and retinal hemorrhage may be caused by non-accidental trauma, especially when impact is involved, they simply are not specific for it: indeed, it has been demonstrated that a wide range of accidental events and medical conditions are plausible alternative causes. Particularly fragile infants may sustain severe head injuries following minor household falls. Others may suffer from genetic conditions, metabolic disorders, blood clotting abnormalities, or infections.
> But in practice, extremely few medical conditions are checked for and “excluded” before concluding a diagnosis of abuse – the great majority are not checked for at all. Very often, abuse is diagnosed “by default”, because no known alternative explanation was found (or even actively sought). This is extremely dangerous, as it seems to indicate that no further medical discovery need ever be made in the future.
> Overall, the clinical literature supporting the shaking hypothesis suffers from a number of severe methodological shortcomings. The main issue is circular reasoning. It is only in a small minority of “shaken baby” cases that actual shaking has been observed by independent witnesses, videotaped, or spontaneously confessed before police interrogation. Far more often, shaking is “inferred” after the observation of subdural and retinal hemorrhage in infants who are brought to the hospital by parents or caregivers. Physicians interpret these types of bleeding as markers of violent trauma. When asked about these findings, parents and caregivers generally do not provide “acceptable explanations” – but the only “acceptable explanations” today apart from shaking are multistory falls and high speed motor vehicle accidents. This being so, it is considered that parents and caregivers must be lying when they report non-traumatic events such as a sudden collapse, an unexplained respiratory arrest, or a minor fall – even though this happens in case after case
Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy
#587Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If a hospital gets a toddler with fractures on their skull, society should damn well figure out how it got them and stop it from happening again. What a leap (the kind the article is calling out by the way). Do you really think all causes for toddler skull fractures are a societal problem?
I do. If a child has a serious injury the circumstances should be examined, as it should be quite rare for children to have serious injuries. That's why places have Child Death and Serious Injury Review Committees.
Fractures among children: incidence and impact on daily activities
https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/4/3/194
wherein we discover that kids 0-12 break bones at an incidence of 128 per 10,000. Over 12 years that's more like 1536 or about 15% of kids if injuries were evenly distributed, although they probably aren't. Still in the right ballpark.
So serious injuries among kids are incredibly common.
If we launch investigations and get it right 95% of the time we will none the less fuck up millions of kids lives. We would probably be better off selectively investigating when there is at least some reason to believe something is afoot instead of every injury.
Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy
#588Earlier quoted context omitted.
That would be fine if the investigations were fair and followed basic principles of jurisprudence like "innocent until proven guilty", but it's plain to see that kids are being separated based on very flimsy evidence. In my book, a doctor doesn't get to absolve themselves of responsibility by saying "just following orders" and that it's the investigative system that needs to be fixed. If they know the system is broke…
I think the point is that the blame lies with DCF, not the doctors. Doctors should report, and DCF should competently investigate. In this scenario, the doctor did their job and DCF did not.
Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy
#589> Very often, abuse is diagnosed “by default”, because no known alternative explanation was found (or even actively sought). This is extremely dangerous, as it seems to indicate that no further medical discovery need ever be made in the future. Well, "dangerous" for who? For a lot of people involved in "child abuse" – from medical professionals to child services to the police – a false positive carries basically no c…
Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy
#590Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It has been the most important thing since the dawn of human civilization Technically this is appeal to tradition. Certainly it's true that our various worldly cultures are strongly influenced by this idea, but factually speaking... before paternity tests, there was literally no way to know for men if a child was their paternal child, especially in societies with very little physical attribute variance. Therefore ,…
It’s the same thing. If a man has sex with a woman and the government then drops off a foster child 9 months later, that’s no different than being expected to raise a child fathered by another man with the same woman.