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Unions work

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141–150 of 237 posts

Re: Unions work

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are fundamental in every line of work. Not having them is a huge problem. In Europe there isnt a single job without an union behind, wonder why in America that doesnt happen

Americans are smart enough and strong enough to not have to hide behind a 'powerful union'. Unions are nothing more than legalized mob. The are worthless for productivity and a disaster for those who are eager to work.

The United States has a rich history of effective organized labor. Not sure what you are getting at here.

Re: Unions work

#142
post #4

They do but an even better option is worker cooperatives which bring democracy and fair profit sharing to the workplace.

WGA is a guild, technically, not a union — because most writers are 1099d by studios, not actually full-time employees. Hence the need for collective protections, as contractors in the US have much less guarantees than W2 employees, and thus a co-op structure is almost infeasible any way you look at it.

WGA as a co-op obviously wouldn't make sense. The studio itself is what should ideally be a co-op.

Re: Unions work

#143

When I was learning to walk, my dad was installing conveyors for an automotive factory - he was vp of engineering (later robotics) for a large engineering firm that Siemens ultimately bought. He was trying to get the job finished and get home to his family, so he was working late one night double checking the fit on all the nuts, bolts, anything he could check to ensure the job was successful. He did this all the tim…

That just sounds like humans committing assault. Really awful, but to me it doesn't indicate much about the concept of unions. I bet there was a firefighter once who murdered someone, but likewise that doesn't indicate much about the concept of firefighting.

Re: Unions work

#144

I have my doubts about unions in our particular industry sector, but out in the real world there are many, many jobs that you would have to be insane to take up without a union at your back.

Unions are fundamental in every line of work. Not having them is a huge problem. In Europe there isnt a single job without an union behind, wonder why in America that doesnt happen

In two words, Taft–Hartley.

Re: Unions work

#145
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "to the country". Faster economic growth?

Faster economic growth tends to lead to happier citizens. In fact, there is a philosophical school of thought that shows that happiness isn't related to the environment one lives in, but the improvement that one sees through one's lifetime. Economic growth can deliver that.

Look at this graph and rethink your post: https://www.epi.org/files/2013/ib388-figurea.jpg

Productivity has gone up over 200% but wages have stayed flat. Where is that economic growth for the worker?

Re: Unions work

#146
post #94
post #43

Kudos for the WGA for the achievement. I partially agree with the statement that unions work. From what I see Unions are great and the current model works in situations where there are 2 monopolies, a monopoly of a work place and monopoly of workforce. In this case the WGA is the monopoly of workforce and the Hollywood is the monopoly of workplace. Along the history I saw that this dynamic worked and got advancements…

I disagree that unions work. It's mainly due to the fact that it treats everyone more or less the same based on some formula. For instance, they make decisions based on an observable set of factors like how long someone has been there and what education and training they have. But anyone that's worked in the workforce knows this is very limited. People aren't the same. Sometimes someone has been in an org forever but…

> It's mainly due to the fact that it treats everyone more or less the same based on some formula.

The beauty of a free market system is that if you feel that way, that the union bring mediocrity, you're not forced to deal with them. Start your own company that does not deal with the unions and bring in talent however you see fit. If unions really make things worse then congratulations, you've just created a more agile company that will certainly dominate in the marketplace.

> Finally even if they do succeed at paying above market salaries, that introduces a new question: who gets the job? Paying above a market salary will necessarily result in a lot more workers than available positions. So you have gatekeeping. That leads to cronyism as above market jobs are dolled out to friends and family.

This is not inherent to unions - this happens every day in non-union gigs. Not sure why you think non-union jobs are immune to cronyism and gatekeeping.

> A clear example of how destructive unions can be, take a look at police unions that regularly protect bad police.

Do you honestly think that the situation would be any different if police were non-union? This is a serious question - I really want to know if you think that the non-union police department would shoot fewer people than an all-union force.

Re: Unions work

#147
So a guy is walking down the street and he sees a worker along the road; the worker digs a hole in the ground, then waits a little bit and fills it back in. After that, he walks 10 feet and repeats the process. The guy asks the worker what he's doing. "Planting trees." "Why don't you put the trees in though?" "Oh, I am from the diggers union; the guy from the planters union is out sick today."

Re: Unions work

#148

When I was learning to walk, my dad was installing conveyors for an automotive factory - he was vp of engineering (later robotics) for a large engineering firm that Siemens ultimately bought. He was trying to get the job finished and get home to his family, so he was working late one night double checking the fit on all the nuts, bolts, anything he could check to ensure the job was successful. He did this all the tim…

There's a long and storied history of anti union violence that is far, far worse than what your dad suffered:

For instance, when a company

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain

>By August 29 the battle was fully underway. Chafin's men, though outnumbered, had the advantage of higher positions and better weaponry. Private planes were hired to drop homemade bombs on the miners. A combination of poison gas and explosive bombs left over from World War I were dropped in several locations near the towns of Jeffery, Sharples and Blair. At least one did not explode and was recovered by the miners; it was used months later to great effect as evidence for the defense during treason and murder trials.

Or the anti union assassinations in Columbia:

https://prospect.org/features/coca-cola-killings/

>After the leader of their union was shot down at their plant gate in late 1996, Edgar Paéz and his co-workers at the Coca-Cola bottling factory in Carepa, Colombia, tried for more than four years to get their government to take action against the responsible parties. Instead, some of the workers themselves wound up behind bars, while the murderers went free.

>I'll never side with people that think this is acceptable behaviour.

It sounds like you are implying that you would never side with any union ever. Not even these.

Is that accurate?

Re: Unions work

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The impact of unionization on the customers/consumers should be considered, too. My experiences dealing with unionized workforces in Canada as a customer/consumer have generally not been good at all. Such workers often exhibit tremendous inefficiency, a lack of care, and disinterest. This results in low-quality service/work, and a bad experience for the customers/consumers involved. This is particularly noticeable wh…

In what ways would non-union government employees be better?

Im not OP but when I think of bad government employees, I think of this jerk at my local post office that has been there for at least 10+ years(I am in the US). Always unhelpful, always making a simple task of sending a package as hard as possible by yelling, complaining about alignment of address labels, providing improper advice on the best way to ship different items causing me to spend a lot more money than I needed to or preventing me from using certain services to ship specific packages that others workers would allow because of his misunderstanding of my package description.

My only recourse to alert anybody of this issue is to fill out a survey. I've been filling out that survey for years. There is no feedback loop to enact change. There is no other "manager" there. How would I even find a manager?

I could go to a competitor but that would not affect them and there are some services that other competitors are not allowed to perform (USPS is the only one that can perform letter mail service by law and others will just take your letter and put it in a larger parcel).

This situation sucks so much that I am reduced to trying to visit the post office at hours that I think he is not there or take a long trip to another town's post office.

Re: Unions work

#150
post #2

I'm conflicted about unions, but it would be truly amazing if they brought us the 4-day work-week the way they got the 8-hour workday and weekends.

Although unions fought for a long time for 8 hour work days it seems the biggest push came after Ford switched to 8 hour days (and doubled pay) and saw productivity and profits rise. It’s hard to give all the credit to any one group.
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