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Unions are "conservative" in terms of resisting certain changes. Interesting dichotomy.
Unions work
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Re: Unions work
#22By AI guardrails they mean: AI cannot be used to write or rewrite scripts, and cannot be source material; but writers are free to use it if they wish. Reminds me of how elevators originally had operators, until everyone realized how wasteful and silly it is to have someone whose sole job is to press elevator buttons. As AI improves, we will come to feel the same about writers.
> how wasteful and silly it is to have someone whose sole job is to press elevator buttons. That doesn't seem like the right cause, since it's the people who seem most concerned with seriousness and economic efficiency who still have elevator operators today.
Who still has elevator operators today?
Re: Unions work
#23They do but an even better option is worker cooperatives which bring democracy and fair profit sharing to the workplace.
I agree. I'm kind of surprised more unions haven't taken responsibility for opening up co-ops. They have lots of money to do it, it's pro-worker, and it enables them to own the means of production.
Unions ironically act very conservative these days. They could take some bold steps to potentially create very worker-friendly, worker-owned shops, which would create a voluntary, non-coercive path towards the "market socialist" structure many people advocate.
Even in large industries like automobiles where this is hard, they could probably start doing something like smaller-scale parts production and sell those.
Re: Unions work
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
> how wasteful and silly it is to have someone whose sole job is to press elevator buttons. That doesn't seem like the right cause, since it's the people who seem most concerned with seriousness and economic efficiency who still have elevator operators today.
Who still has elevator operators today?
Wealthy people and stores trying to make their customers feel like a wealthy person.
Re: Unions work
#25I'm conflicted about unions, but it would be truly amazing if they brought us the 4-day work-week the way they got the 8-hour workday and weekends.
A good chunk of employers will let you work a 4 day workweek in return for a 20% pay cut. For most people here on HN, you could probably survive on a 20% pay cut - you'd just have to have the kids share a bedroom rather than having one each and a guest room. Downside: Those on a 4 day workweek really struggle to get promoted to senior positions.
The 4 Day Week movement is to not take a pay cut, as workers are already productive enough (and that productivity can be maintained in a shorter work week, proven by several pilot/trials [1]). It's incredibly disingenuous for folks opposed to a 4 day week to say workers need to be even more productive [2] to obtain a shorter work week to maintain existing pay (at least in the US, where pay has been stagnant for almost half a century [3]).
If a 4 day week is codified into labor law and regulation, there is no game theory consideration vs some orgs with 4 day weeks competing with those with 5. Would you work 6 days a week today (for example)? Probably not, unless you're an outlier of some sort, and you don't see many orgs with a mandatory 6 day work week (because they wouldn't be able to retain talent). This is about pulling a policy ratchet to reduce the work week at scale for everyone, because the productivity already exists (it's just been funneled to the top wealthiest population, traditionally).
"It always seems impossible until it's done."
[1] https://www.4dayweek.com/ | https://www.4dayweek.com/research
[2] https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/
[3] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/19/heres-how-labor-dynamism-aff...
Re: Unions work
#26Re: Unions work
#27By AI guardrails they mean: AI cannot be used to write or rewrite scripts, and cannot be source material; but writers are free to use it if they wish. Reminds me of how elevators originally had operators, until everyone realized how wasteful and silly it is to have someone whose sole job is to press elevator buttons. As AI improves, we will come to feel the same about writers.
Elevator operators were not replaced by buttons.
Elevator operators were replaced by very complex computers with many redundant censors.
You had elevator operators for safety not convenience...
Similarly you seem to have the common misconception that the purpose of a writer is to churn out random text which can be replaced with LLM vs building a coherent story and guiding it through the creative process in support of the other people involved.
The writers strike was primarily about streaming having terrible residuals and while they were striking they took back the inputs into AI from studios which makes sense given writing has always been for a particular project.
Re: Unions work
#28[flagged]
Re: Unions work
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
Weekends and 8 hour work week is not necessarily a good thing. There could be benefits to switching to 996 work week to compete better with China.
Not for the workers, no.
I mean, I don't think it will happen but it's not hard to imagine a scenario where an imploded society losing to China will be even worse for the workers.
Re: Unions work
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Weekends and 8 hour work week is not necessarily a good thing. There could be benefits to switching to 996 work week to compete better with China.
Benefits to whom?
Those vaguely phallic shaped rockets flying billionaires to space won't pay for themselves, you know!
But if you roll over and let them own 0your entire life, I guess you can have a pizza party from time to time.