They do but an even better option is worker cooperatives which bring democracy and fair profit sharing to the workplace.
Any pointers on how to turn an existing company into a worker co-op or employee owned company?
Unions work
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Re: Unions work
#62I'm conflicted about unions, but it would be truly amazing if they brought us the 4-day work-week the way they got the 8-hour workday and weekends.
Have you looked into worker cooperatives? Ocean Spray is an example in the US. Mondragon is an example of one in Spain that has tens of thousands of workers and has existed for many decades.
This is not correct. Ocean Spray is not a cooperative of workers. It's a cooperative of private farmers.
Re: Unions work
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you mean by "to the country". Faster economic growth?
Faster economic growth tends to lead to happier citizens. In fact, there is a philosophical school of thought that shows that happiness isn't related to the environment one lives in, but the improvement that one sees through one's lifetime. Economic growth can deliver that.
> Faster economic growth tends to lead to happier citizens.
What's the evidence for this?
Re: Unions work
#64They do but an even better option is worker cooperatives which bring democracy and fair profit sharing to the workplace.
How do you define "fair profit sharing" and what are the owners' "fair share" in your definition?
Re: Unions work
#65I can see why workers are most concerned with their own benefit but total productivity is important to the health of a business and economy, which is important to workers as well. And no, working 32 hours is not as productive as 40 hours.
If I was incentivized to care about business productivity (almost no IC is) why should I care if I’m more or less productive? My quality of life only goes up the fewer hours I work so unless there’s some incentive pushing the other way. It’s fine that business and workers have different incentive directions. We’ve been making workers more and more productive with computers and automation. Why shouldn’t I work a little less?
Re: Unions work
#66Unions also kill companies when executives refuse their demands: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_McCardell
Re: Unions work
#67They do but an even better option is worker cooperatives which bring democracy and fair profit sharing to the workplace.
WGA is a guild, technically, not a union — because most writers are 1099d by studios, not actually full-time employees. Hence the need for collective protections, as contractors in the US have much less guarantees than W2 employees, and thus a co-op structure is almost infeasible any way you look at it.
Re: Unions work
#68I can see why workers are most concerned with their own benefit but total productivity is important to the health of a business and economy, which is important to workers as well. And no, working 32 hours is not as productive as 40 hours.
That's why these are two forces: the interests of the business, and the interests of the workers. The idea is that they negotiate and compromise, and a good balance is found.
Re: Unions work
#69I can see why workers are most concerned with their own benefit but total productivity is important to the health of a business and economy, which is important to workers as well. And no, working 32 hours is not as productive as 40 hours.
Remember, when someone says "X works", what they mean is "X is effective at accomplishing what I want to accomplish, and I don't give a shit what you want to accomplish". In this meaning, when the headline says "unions work", it is being 100% honest.
Second sentence of the article: "This is a great example of how unions can really work for their members."
Re: Unions work
#70I'm conflicted about unions, but it would be truly amazing if they brought us the 4-day work-week the way they got the 8-hour workday and weekends.
Have you looked into worker cooperatives? Ocean Spray is an example in the US. Mondragon is an example of one in Spain that has tens of thousands of workers and has existed for many decades.
I wouldn't characterize any agricultural co-op like Ocean Spray as the same category as a worker co-op like Mondragon. There is a very distinct line between a farmer, who's an owner, and a farm worker, who handles most of the day-to-day operations.