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EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

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Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#891

Post by thayne »

robertlagrant wrote: post #670
noirscape wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Blink becomes a monopoly, and with it chromium, then Google can finally be "properly" hit with an antitrust case over Chrome. Especially when combined with the fact the big G can't keep directly funding Firefox to create a fake competition anymore under the new rules from the digital markets act. Google should've been hit with an antitrust case on Chrome years ago and their recent shenanigans with the topics api o…

> If V8 becomes a monopoly, and with it chromium, then Google can finally be "properly" hit with an antitrust case over Chrome V8 isn't a monopoly in the antitrust sense, at all. Google gives away the source code to most of Chrome that allows other people to make browsers with it, and they do. Something being popular doesn't indicate a monopoly. Microsoft could choose to make a browser engine, but they don't, and it'…

V8 isn't, but chrome is. And google uses their monopoly of the browser market to give other google products an advantage.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#892

Post by wpm »

dml2135 wrote: post #852
maratc wrote: post #785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, as alternate stores will change the experience for everybody. I download 0 new apps per year, but I use WhatsApp, Outlook, and Google Maps. Today, I get them all from one store - one password to remember, one credit card to have, one stupid set of "security questions" to forget the answers. Tomorrow, Facebook AppStore will be the only place to get WhatsApp, Microsoft AppStore will be the only place to get Outlook…

Drop the “app” from store for a second and make your argument again, except imagine a scenario where there is just one physical store for all the consumer goods you need, and you’d be upset about that being broken up because now you’ll be inconvenienced. But what you won’t be is under the thumb of a single company that has way too much power over you.

Imagine a scenario where there is a store that requires strict controls on ingredients and supply chain, where if you want your crackers or frozen pizzas or fruit sold there, you have to ensure they are USDA organic, free of GMOs, pesticides, and so on.

But I like Cheez-its, and Cheez-its are NOT USDA organic and the supply chain is full of modern monoculture farmed grain and its full of artificial ingredients. The store refuses to carry it. It's not nice! I like those, why can't I buy them there?

Even if it was the only store in town, and if I live in Anytown I have to shop at the fancy-pants health store, I chose to live in Anytown. I can leave anytime I want. But wait! There are parts of Anytown I really like! It's walkable, and quiet, and safe. I just can't have Cheez-its. It's not nice to make me choose between all of the things I like, and the things I don't! I want to have my cake and eat it to, or, rather, in this case, my Cheez-its.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#893

Post by shuckles »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #779
shuckles wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s a killer sideloaded app on Android that iPhone users suffer from not having? Fortnite? I’m looking for problems on the scale of millions of users.

Signal or Telegram in China. All those opposition apps that Apple readily removed from Russian AppStore at Putin's behest.

Oppressive governments aren’t going to force Apple to allow side loading, so this isn’t really a meaningful example.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#894

Post by wpm »

Obscurity4340 wrote: post #369
grishka wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good solution to apps wanting to track your every click is not organizational but technical. Just don't give them APIs for reliable cross-app tracking. That advertising ID? It simply does not need to exist at all . Same for all the attribution bullshit. Besides, sideloading enables installation of modded apps giving users more choice.

Same with not allowing fine-grain control of what apps are allowed to use your WiFi/connect to the internet. I don't give a shit that an app feels entitled to it, its my internet bill and its already implemented perfectly for your cellular data stuff. There's no reason or excuse its not a privacy setting that you can tightly-control and revoke.

This would be excellent, because most apps and even iOS shits the bed when it is on a WiFi network that can't reach out to the Internet. They expect it to be there and open all the time, and show me all sorts of Fisher-Price "Uhoh! Your WiFi isn't working!" errors when in fact it is working fine, and I'm completely aware it can't connect to the Internet because I'm the one who configured the firewall.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#895

Post by Explore3003 »

simongray wrote: post #798
sensanaty wrote: post #677

I tend to drop the bot/shill-detector part of my brain when I'm on HN, but whenever this topic crops up it's always a deluge of people with the same exact arguments saying "ohh my poor grandma will be coerced to install a Virus if we allow the owner of an iDevice any freedom whatsoever with hardware they bought!!!", and it's quite interesting to me the volume of comments with the exact same identical sentiment copy/p…

> Hope this passes the same way the USB-C thing passed. All these parasitic megacorps with more money than many countries need to be whipped into submission for their shenanigans It has already passed and is active legislation as of this year, but there is some built-in grace period for making the changes.

[dead]

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#896

Post by a-user-you-like »

amelius wrote: post #761
a-user-you-like wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> to coerce men to do what you want You make it sound as if it's their god given right to make products as they please but that is not how the law works, and it's a good thing, because without laws we'd end up with stuff that works only in the vendor's best interest and ends up as e-waste sooner than necessary. It is also fair, because society is what ultimately allows these companies to exist.

Of course it’s their God given right. It shouldn’t be their right to violate God’s law, but “my totes fav phone provider totes doesn’t have side loading” is just entitled, and an unjust use of coercion.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#897

Post by cakemuncher »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #569
kibwen wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fucking good. Seconded. Perpetually baffled by the so-called hackers in all of these threads arguing vociferously against user freedom.

Yeah, I don't understand it at all. It's shocking to me to see people on Hacker News defend the trillion dollar corporation's right to literally own their computers and their entire digital lives. We shouldn't even have to justify these viewpoints here.

[flagged]

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#898

Post by jononomo »

fennecfoxy wrote: post #859
MagicMoonlight wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t want Facebook to be able to say that I can’t use Whatsapp unless I install their rootkit store.

Then don't use Whatsapp if that's the case? I notice so many people complaining about so many things but they refuse to boycott them. If >x% of the population actually take action on any issue, it'll get solved.

If you live in Costa Rica, then you have no choice but to use WhatsApp. I suppose technically could you could choose to be entirely unable to communicate and to be left out of the economy, but that's not much of a choice.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#899

Post by amelius »

a-user-you-like wrote: post #896
amelius wrote: post #761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to coerce men to do what you want You make it sound as if it's their god given right to make products as they please but that is not how the law works, and it's a good thing, because without laws we'd end up with stuff that works only in the vendor's best interest and ends up as e-waste sooner than necessary. It is also fair, because society is what ultimately allows these companies to exist.

Of course it’s their God given right. It shouldn’t be their right to violate God’s law, but “my totes fav phone provider totes doesn’t have side loading” is just entitled, and an unjust use of coercion.

Fundamentally, no. Because in many EU countries people have given their lives for freedom. These people and their offspring have the right not to be bullied by large companies. If Apple wants 100% freedom in producing what they want, then Apple can start/fight for their own country with its own army, education system etc.

This whole idea of a free market existing in a vacuum must stop.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#900

Post by wpm »

faeriechangling wrote: post #305
theshrike79 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When this goes through, you can be 100% sure there will be a Meta-only iOS store along with a Google iOS store and all their apps will move there. After that if you want to use apps to access any Google or Meta service, you'll need to get it from their store - that doesn't have any pesky limitations on user profiling or stupid guidelines for privacy.

With the Play Store, the only times I ever see people not use the play store is when: - They're using an Amazon device - They're installing fortnite I'm not so convinced that opening up the app store to competition would result in a deluge of developers forcing people to install their own store apps and sideload everything. The only reason I could imagine that happening is Apple continuing to charge extremely high re…

Facebook was extremely miffed at the required Privacy Disclosures that became required on the App Store a year or two ago, the one that lists, like a nutritional label, what data the app gathers. Facebook's looks like the ingredients list of a cheap-o, pre-wrapped donut from a gas station.

Meta has already been caught abusing enterprise provisioning profiles to get around App Store rules.

Many App Store rules are not technical, that you can get around by simply crafting the API to behave a certain way. Many of them take the form of a "gentlemen's agreement" type of rule. You have to convince either the code-inspection algos or the human app reviewers you are following them before your app gets listed. Many of these rules do not exist on the Play Store. So of course Facebook is just on the Play Store, they have no motivation to leave! They've *already* attempted to break out of the guardrails on the App Store.

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