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EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

appleinsider.com

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Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#361

Post by LeoNatan25 »

martimarkov wrote: post #353
LeoNatan25 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of that is already accounted for and protected by in the OS. An app cannot normally register daemons or agent (or even an XPC service). Installing is already limited to FrontBoard standard installation mechanism. All that will remain in a possible open iOS future.

Except usage of private APIs?

I can hide any private API usage already for normal store submission. If I am the tiniest bit careful, I will get away with most private stuff that is still not protected by the kernel using entitlements. For example,

https://github.com/LeoNatan/LNExtensionExecutor

This is a framework I obfuscate API usage, and is present in several App Store apps that I know of.

Apple security comes from kernel hardening, not static API analysis.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#362

Post by fostware »

kibwen wrote: post #311
irrational wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I don't understand is why some people defend it, Have you tried to understand it? It is pretty clear to me. People like not having to worry about malware, tracking, etc.

This is FUD. Sideloading has not resulted in any of those things on Android.

Not sure whether you're fishing for a response or that naive... Any number of security warnings for Android have come out specifically mentioning sideloading being a vector for malicious or invasive spyware. Much more than any curated store, and even then the historical track record isn't stellar.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#363

Post by madeofpalk »

easton wrote: post #221
madeofpalk wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm rather indifferent on the matter, but this doesn't quite hold true. It's possible (likely?) that a someone big - one who ordinary folk would go through the jumps for - would only publish their app via side loading (or alt app store) and use this to bypass some of the policy restrictions wrt privacy on the App Store. This then becomes a slippery slope and would act as a platform to allow other apps through. The to…

The only thing about this argument I don’t quite agree with is that can’t apple just continue to sandbox apps to heck and back even if they are sideloaded? Like, currently apps can’t get a unique identifier for a user without the user allowing tracking, I don’t see why that has to change because sideloading is a thing. Unless there’s an implicit “and also the apps need to be able to get root/super entitlements withou…

Yes, security should always be implemented by technical means by the platform. Those hoping that alt-app stores means a complete free for all will be disappointed. But many things just cannot be restricted just by technical means, and instead relies on policy, and the threat of Apple kicking you off the platform, to enforce restrictions.

A trivial example is the review prompts. It's policy that you must use the standard iOS APIs to trigger (which limits the frequency it's shown to the user). An app technically could implement their own UI (and im sure some still slip through), and there's no real way to prevent this, but being against the rules carries risks.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#364

Post by martimarkov »

ilkke wrote: post #214
johnzim wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inexplicable need to make the browser a second OS with worse everything boggles my mind. Especially on mobile devices which prize battery life. It won't give users choice because we as an industry have again and again just chosen what's easiest for us instead of best for the customer. We'd 100% still be using Flash if Apple hadn't refused to support it because of the battery and performance issues. This forum spe…

And by "battery and performance issues" you mean "people being able to play an insane number of games in the browser and Apple not getting a cut of the ad money". Flash was running just fine on Android with much humbler specs than then-current iPhone.

There was no App Store when the iPhone came out so not really a valid point

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#365

Post by KorematsuFredt »

nunez wrote: post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

Please buy an Android then. Why insist on giving your hard earned money to someone who does not care about your requirements ?

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#366

Post by surgical_fire »

spullara wrote: post #50

I for one look forward to there being a franken iphone in EU covered with ads and malware. Apple should give them exactly what they want. Every major software company will have their own app store for their apps. It will be glorius!

Except it doesn't happen with Android.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#368

Post by lmm »

cmdli wrote: post #184

I, for one, do not look forward to having to sideload Facebook, Instagram, Google, Gmail, and every single other megacorps app just because they want to track my every click. I would rather give power to Apple than all the other companies.

Amazon used to encourage you to sideload their app store on android. You got a free copy of Angry Birds 2 if you did, and I think at one point you may have needed to do it if you wanted to install prime video at all.

It still ended up going away and they gave up. So allowing sideloading is hardly the threat you think it is.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#369

Post by Obscurity4340 »

grishka wrote: post #209
cmdli wrote: post #184

I, for one, do not look forward to having to sideload Facebook, Instagram, Google, Gmail, and every single other megacorps app just because they want to track my every click. I would rather give power to Apple than all the other companies.

A good solution to apps wanting to track your every click is not organizational but technical. Just don't give them APIs for reliable cross-app tracking. That advertising ID? It simply does not need to exist at all . Same for all the attribution bullshit. Besides, sideloading enables installation of modded apps giving users more choice.

Same with not allowing fine-grain control of what apps are allowed to use your WiFi/connect to the internet. I don't give a shit that an app feels entitled to it, its my internet bill and its already implemented perfectly for your cellular data stuff. There's no reason or excuse its not a privacy setting that you can tightly-control and revoke.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#370

Post by mwint »

pavlov wrote: post #346
nargella wrote: post #336

I do wonder if Tim Apple would be so bold as to stop selling in the EU for all the rules and regulations that they have been required to follow. It would be amazing to see that play out imo. Like a reverse boycott could happen? The secondary strategy Timmy could pull is a dumbed down ecosystem in the EU which I’m sure is even worse for everyone. But hey, you’d be able to buy audible books straight in the app. Is it w…

Sure, there are companies that choose not to be in a particular jurisdiction, like Meta has long chosen not to be in China. But it’s a lot easier to make that choice early when you don’t need to give up on revenue. In Apple’s case, leaving EU would mean losing around $90 billion in annual revenue and ceding a large chunk of their global market share to Android. It’s really hard to justify that kind of thing to shareh…

It might be easier to justify than that, though - the EU has shown an increasing willingness to dictate; Apple may project that out to causing more than $90B/yr in harm or slowed growth in the global business.
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