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Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

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Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#201

Post by agateform »

olalonde wrote: post #113
hythloday wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of disagreement as to whether porn is "anti-feminist". The school of thought that says it isn't stresses the importance of female agency (that it's up to the porn actors to decide where they work). I don't see any agency in appearing in a "that's what she said" joke, so I'm afraid I don't see the double standard.

To clarify, I was referring to the technical people working in the porn industry, not the performers per se.

Are you saying that porn only objectify woman?

I see the sexual objectification concept often used as a way to demonise natural human sexual attraction. If man and woman ignored physical appearance and resourcefulness we would probably be extinct by now.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#202

Post by smsm42 »

mseebach wrote: post #162
AkThhhpppt wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but satire has to be done well to work (see unalone's "We want" comment for an example). Auto-responding "that's what she says" isn't.

Agreed. But the blog post in the tumbler post you linked does not like satire: As hipster racism has become more widespread, it’s also crept into more general society. Racist content appears in films and television shows, disguised as “satire,” it’s on the cover of major magazines, it’s in the pages of respectable newspapers. While explicit racism is viewed as socially unacceptable, racism disguised as irony or satir…

I kind of wondered why this bot survived the first day. I think it's moderately funny first 2-3 times (not hilarious, but slightly entertaining due to the irony) but after that it gets stale exponentially fast. I must admit I never really encountered a person that actually used a TWSS joke, though I can see how it can be funny used once. Repeated joke is just annoyance (at best). Repeated irony is revolting. The (first) bot should have died on day 2, and that should be it.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#203

Post by unalone »

eaten_by_a_grue wrote: post #196
wpietri wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the same joke. The interruption and reaction makes it a metajoke.

Like most people caught out doing something wrong, now you are trying to make "rational" arguments against it.

I thought my joke was lighthearted enough, and metatextual enough, that it wouldn't offend anybody or make anybody feel uncomfortable. If my joke made anyone feel like their voice wasn't welcome in this conversation, then I apologize, and I'd like you to tell me so that I don't make this mistake in the future.

My apology does not extend to you, eaten_by_a_grue, because you're not complaining about my joke, you're calling me a hypocrite. I neither apologize for my thinking "that's what she said" jokes are potentially offensive nor for trying to make a funny, inoffensive variation.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#205

Post by cantastoria »

wpietri wrote: post #148
cantastoria wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear Sir, We noticed you have made some potentially inflammatory comments directed towards women. We have started to monitor your account and will shut it down if you continue to use this type of language. Please read the following guidelines that explain how to correctly discuss and think about these issues: "What things are most useful for men to keep in mind when discussing theories or topics relating to gender?"…

Yes! Also, what's up with Miss Manners suggesting other ways for people to be polite? Why is she keeping me down with her "chew with your mouth closed" and "use the toilet paper, not the hand towels" bullshit! No one can police me! The constitution say so! I DO WHAT I WANT! Or, and I'm just thinking out loud here, we could recognize that, especially in professional contexts, we actually want to behave towards our col…

Dear Sir,

We noticed you have made some potentially inflammatory comments directed towards women. We have identified this text as being in violation of our code of conduct:

Yes! Also, what's up with Miss Manners suggesting other ways for people to be polite? Why is she keeping me down with her "chew with your mouth closed" and "use the toilet paper, not the hand towels" bullshit! No one can police me! The constitution say so! I DO WHAT I WANT!

We have started to monitor your account and will shut it down if you continue to use this type of language. Please read the following guidelines that explain how to correctly discuss and think about these issues:

"What things are most useful for men to keep in mind when discussing theories or topics relating to gender?" http://www.quora.com/What-things-are-most-useful-for-men-to-....

"Derailing for Dummies": http://derailingfordummies.com/

We hope we will not have to contact you again about further violations.

Thank you.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#206

Post by EvilTerran »

eaten_by_a_grue wrote: post #196
wpietri wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the same joke. The interruption and reaction makes it a metajoke.

Like most people caught out doing something wrong, now you are trying to make "rational" arguments against it.

Er, the poster who replied to you (wpietri) is a different account from the one you replied to (unalone).

Also, now you're engaging in vacuous sophistry - you've made an assertion of wrongdoing without backing it up, and yet neither of them could reply here to defend themselves without seeming to dig deeper into the hole you insist they're in, because "oh look more 'rational' arguments".

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#207

Post by agateform »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #119
rimantas wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if there is agreement that "sexist" jokes (or people telling them) are antifeminist.

Among feminists there is. Heck, there's science: "exposure to sexist humor can lead to toleration of hostile feelings and discrimination against women" http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071106083038.ht... The only people trying to argue "lighten up" are anti-feminists.

I just wanted to point out that being anti-feminist does not necessarily mean anti woman or anti womans rights.

I do agree that sexist jokes are a bad thing and not only when done against woman.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#208

Post by smsm42 »

hythloday wrote: post #27
oskarth wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I find the most fascinating is that she did everything exactly right and people still feel like she did something wrong. She didn't go to her supervisor and she didn't turn it into a drama. Instead she fought the problem in its own arena by making a IRC-bot to combat the problem, and not only that: the IRC-bot is only selectively used in the exact situation that is seen as problematic and it does so by writing e…

Yeah, unfortunately, if there is a gender stereotype to these kinds of conversations, it's that invariably there will be a response from a man saying "you did it wrong", regardless of the particular action the woman took. c.f. "She should have talked to her supervisor" here to "she should have made a witty come-back to the guy directly" to the guy with a low-cut sense of appropriateness.

You really think the "you did it wrong" response has something to do with gender? It's a standard response to pretty much anybody doing anything notable. There's always somebody on the internet that thinks he (or she, in most cases one has no idea) could do better and must express this fact publicly. Most of the comments threads have a grain of that, and some are made of it 100%. I know there are gender stereotypes and other issues, but this is not an instance of that, it's a common thing.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#209

Post by sp332 »

tomp wrote: post #58
brown9-2 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly this seems like its the same thing as you guys in the US not being able to say merry christmas because it might offend someone. Is this a common perception of those outside the US about what goes on inside the US?

Yes. I find it extremely funny/awkward that you say police person instead of policeman/woman, flight attendant instead of steward/stewardess, horizontally challenged instead of fat, can't say fuck on TV (but it's ok to carry guns and kill millions of innocent Afghans and support Israel's invasion of Palestine), that you can't drink under 18/21 (I don't know which one) not even if your parents are around (and you call…

For a while (a few decades back), ads for airlines were really sexist and promoted their stewardesses as sex objects. So replacing "stewardess" with "flight attendant" is for airlines to distance themselves from an actual, offensive practice.
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