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EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

appleinsider.com

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Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#501

Post by jedimind »

allenrb wrote: post #383

Good lord, this is the whinge that never ends, isn’t it? If you want an Android phone, dozens if not hundreds of companies will sell you one. You can quite literally choose the level of openness you desire. Personally I prefer the Apple ecosystem where things just tend to work well. It would be difficult to care less about running something other than Safari on an iPhone. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy Apple’s produ…

your regurgitated talking points are copy pasta at this point, they have been thoroughly refuted a billion times - so I'm gonna keep it short and sweet, if Apple doesn't like the European guidelines they are welcome to stop selling their products there.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#503

Post by bitwize »

kibwen wrote: post #318
nunez wrote: post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

> Fucking good. Seconded. Perpetually baffled by the so-called hackers in all of these threads arguing vociferously against user freedom.

Apple has done more for user freedom than the open source movement ever could, by creating products that uncompromisingly put the user first, enabling ordinary people to do things they could never do before. Tech nerds are a tiny sliver of a tiny sliver of the market; compared to the empowered users who appreciate Apple's commitment to keep its platforms secure and high quality, the number of people who really want to be able to run arbitrary (perhaps malicious) code on their device is negligible.

Even then, Steve Jobs could, with a wave of his hand, instantly achieve things tech nerds had been struggling to do for years before: things like make Flash go away or make DRM on digital music no longer be a thing.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#505

Post by snow_mac »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #411
allenrb wrote: post #383

Good lord, this is the whinge that never ends, isn’t it? If you want an Android phone, dozens if not hundreds of companies will sell you one. You can quite literally choose the level of openness you desire. Personally I prefer the Apple ecosystem where things just tend to work well. It would be difficult to care less about running something other than Safari on an iPhone. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy Apple’s produ…

I downvoted this because you're ignoring iMessage. The fact that Apple purposefully not only gives Android users a shitty experience when communicating with iOS users, but also ensures that the presence of an Android user can break the experience for everyone else in a group chat (e.g. degraded videos now for everyone) in iMessage is a blatant attempt to abuse their monopoly power (in the US at least where iMessage d…

I hate android users, get a damn iPhone.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#506

Post by brokenmachine »

sugarkjube wrote: post #398
nunez wrote: post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

> I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing Dream on. I use Firefox on my (android) phone and tablet, and it is seriously crippled. Also evolving in the wrong direction. (becoming more crippled)

In what way is android Firefox crippled? I have adblocking and even use Tampermonkey on it.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#507

Post by ThatPlayer »

olliej wrote: post #21

Does this apply to PlayStations, Xbox, Nintendos, etc?

If they get declared a gatekeeper, yes. Until then it doesn't apply.

I'm not sure they meet the requirements of being a gatekeeper. One of the requirements for example is 45 million monthly active users in the EU. According to Microsoft, Xbox is only at 4 million:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/account-billing/informat...

Playstation and Nintendo might be more popular, but 10x more popular? Even the Switch has only sold 6x the Xbox Series consoles.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#508

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

frizlab wrote: post #218
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you like Apple's policies, just don't sideload and install everything from their official AppStore. Nothing will change for you then. You can do it on MacBooks as well.

That’s stupid. Apps will just not be in the App Store and you’ll have to side load to be able to have them. Which we (at least I) explicitly don’t want to do. And explicitly and even more don’t want my computer illiterate entourage to do!

Currently, Apple apologists say, "just do your research and don't buy Apple's products if you don't like the rules". Likewise, you are free to not use the apps that aren't available on Appstore.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#509

Post by TapWaterBandit »

orangecat wrote: post #465
JoshuaRogers wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it comes down to what we expect the second order effects to be. Those who argue that forcing Apple to open up their ecosystem is a good thing appear to believe that increased user freedom will lead to more option for all and increase freedom further. Those of us who argue that being forced to open their ecosystem is a bad thing believe (speaking personally) that any user freedom added would quickly be lost an…

I think it comes down to what we expect the second order effects to be. Yes, and when the first order effect is that a giant corporation gets total control over how you use "your" property, you need to be very confident in your predictions to outweigh that. Personally I think we all want to see long-term user freedom Apple certainly doesn't.

Exactly.

Worrying about second order effects here considering the current situation is like saying:

We're worried that removing our heel from the throat of the user might allow all sorts of things to go down there, some of which might be dangerous.

Maybe this will happen in some cases but we can be fairly confident it will also help the user to breathe.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#510

Post by wyre »

Keyframe wrote: post #493
faeriechangling wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you can only run Safari on iOS Apple mandating WebKit is the only thing holding v8 back from a total monopoly, while WebKit itself has no chance of being a monopoly in the forseeable future, so I doubt there's a good anti-competitive case to be made for forcing Apple to stop doing this. It would only accelerate the monopolisation of the browser market if this happened. It would be good for consumers in the short ter…

You're advocating against v8 monopoly, where no one is forcing it down on anyone, by holding a candle to the actual enforced monopoly of WebKit? Where's consumer choice in this and how about having an actual choice dictate what is used and what isn't? Let me quote from a familiar case: "Antitrust laws ensure one company doesn't control the market, deplete consumer choice, and inflate prices. Microsoft was accused of…

Years of propaganda and throttled data from Google to use Chrome doesn’t give a lot of real consumer choice.

Even now there’s programmers only product testing in Chrome that makes some web services not work in anything but Chrome.

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