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EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

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421–430 of 1001 posts

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#421

Maybe not surprising but if you read the comments on the website there seems to be only Apple fanboys commenting who are butt-hurt about it. You can not make this up, consumers who root for a monopoly. This reminds me of gamers who hate the Epic Games Store with passion even though they give the actual devs of the games a bigger cut. Competition is always good for the consumers. And I get the security part when it co…

What monopoly? Android has a larger market share than Apple by quite a large factor in the European Union. Saying that Apple does not provide value is laughable - saying that it isn't worth 30% of the transaction value might be one thing, but they provide the R&D to create the device, the platform, the review infrastructure, update infrastructure, development environment, etc. I'm not even sure I disagree with you, b…

> Saying that Apple does not provide value is laughable - saying that it isn't worth 30% of the transaction value might be one thing, but they provide the R&D to create the device, the platform, the review infrastructure, update infrastructure, development environment, etc.

By that same measure I should be allowed to ask how this R&D benefits the majority of app developers on the app store. Honestly, when it comes to the value Apple provides to their developers, a much stronger argument would be their marketing that leads to extraordinary customer loyalty, in addition to the higher value market in terms of what customers they attract.

But R&D? Honestly you're joking right? The majority of the platforms "cool" features are locked down and not available to developers. Can I make use of the iPhones SOS feature for my emergency service? Nope, this is an Apple exclusive service, only offered by and through them themselves.

What about NFC/digital payments? Yeah no. Can't access that as an developer without a heavily restricted API.

What about their industry leading Bluetooth stack? Nope, also locked down. I can only pair certain devices, hell I can't even enable platform interoperability between Android and iOS, even though we _know this works_ due to the covid contact tracing feature.

Good luck with trying to offer a competing product to the Apple Watch on their platform. You can't.

Development infrastructure? You mean the infrastructure that I can also only procure through them? The infrastructure that consists of a Mac that I need to actually publish iOS apps, even though nothing would be stopping me from developing these apps on another platform, say Linux?

What about CI/CD and testing and security research? Remember, up until 1-2 years ago, Apple actively went to court against offers such as those of corellium, like when you wanted a virtual device to test your app with.

Google had all this and more on a free app store with a much more fractured ecosystem.

I could go on and on about this, but the majority of app store developers doesn't make use of a large part of their "R&D". A large part of what you call "R&D" I call the typical Apple BS of claiming well established technologies and practices as their own invention and then somehow finding a way to charge you for it.

I'd accept this argument in smaller markets what with the VR goggles and whatnot, and I agree that from a design standpoint, all of these API's / lockdowns are well intentioned and make sense.

But at the same time, the antitrust violation standpoint holds for me as well. Even if I tried, I could not offer a competing product to say, the Apple Watch, because Apple will not allow me to create a device with the same interoperability like their own devices.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#422

Is this just one big protectionist move? Opening the doors for more EU app companies to rake more money? I'm not even sure which EU companies are spending the big lobbying dollars for this one? Anyone? Conceptually I'm on board in practice I'm not. Once we actually look at what the other side looks like it's going to be super disappointing. And like everyone else said -- if you don't like the platform go shop for ano…

> Opening the doors for more EU app companies to rake more money? EU technology companies are not known for their profiteering compared to American ones. Just saying.

They're not known for it because they don't have the ability, not because they don't have the willingness. It's not a matter of culture or policy as evidenced by the profiteering of European luxury goods monopolies. Europe can't compete in tech so it has its lunch eaten by American companies.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users in a duopoly are getting coerced to a degree far more important to individual freedoms than the largest publicly traded corporation.

Users are not being coerced. Not being offered the products you want is not coercion.

At some point it is. A smart phone is essentially a need today.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#424

Maybe not surprising but if you read the comments on the website there seems to be only Apple fanboys commenting who are butt-hurt about it. You can not make this up, consumers who root for a monopoly. This reminds me of gamers who hate the Epic Games Store with passion even though they give the actual devs of the games a bigger cut. Competition is always good for the consumers. And I get the security part when it co…

> if you read the comments on the website there seems to be only Apple fanboys commenting who are butt-hurt about it It makes sense, though: Apple is all about making things easier for the user at the expense of third party developers. Users don't need to deal with app reviewers denying bugfixes because they used the demo credentials on the wrong app, they can just be mad at apps for being buggy. Banks all around the…

Apple claims they make things easier but that is not actually the case. They may make a few things easier than Microsoft or Google but they make a lot of things harder too. All their hardware is harder to repair than what is available from competition. Their documentation is inferior (if it exists at all) to even open source project. Software from Apple is hard to use for anyone not used to it which negates their "intuitive" claims and people who are used to it are just keep buying more of their hardware when software fails so there is no incentive to fix anything.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling Windows reliable and saying professionals manage to keep Linux servers running does not help your argument.

I’ve been using Windows for 25 years now. Please don’t lecture me about its reliability, especially in the last 15 years. I’m also having a weekly kernel panic on my M1 Max Mac, a sight unseen on any of my Windows machines for more than a decade, even when using beta nVidia drivers.

Presumably someone who uses beta graphics drivers and reasons from personal anecdotes is not a good judge of the reliability of a mass market operating system for the average consumer.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#426
I think this is a great thing for Apple customers and customers of all platforms as it will increase the experiences available to iPhone customers and give non-iPhone customers a new reason to move to the iPhone (I know I would certainly consider buying an iPhone if I could do more with it).

This doesn't prevent high quality apps from being distributed on iOS - this just means that Apple needs to compete with other developers on its own platform, something it doesn't need to do currently.

It's unlikely consumers would install an alternative app store or side-load apps without a compelling reason to do so.

If we see that enough customers are motivated to learn and undergo the process of sideloading an app or installing an alternate app store, then we can view that as an indicator that Apple's existing ecosystem is lacking and restricting experiences customers desire - or that developers cannot publish using Apple's existing channels.

In other words, it indicates that Apple customers want more than Apple can provide meaning that Apple either needs to compete with the alternatives or lose software customers - fostering competition and engaging Apple on a level they haven't felt in a long time.

Apple can still justify its app store as the place to go to find the best quality "Apple certified" apps. Go there if you want to find an app free of tracking, and approved by Apple for quality - justifying their app store developer pricing through the marketing apps receive.

Would love to see how the legislation develops in the long term.

Will this eventuate in MacOS/iOS apps being cross-compilable (from Linux) through disarming license terms restricting libraries from being used on all platforms?

What about preventing the installation of iOS/MacOS on non Apple hardware?

What about banning locked bootloaders - allowing people to port Android to iPhones (which I assume is feasible given the cross over from the Asahi project) - or allowing root access as an opt-in feature for customers.

Or something like rules requiring vendors to provide minimal public software or hardware schematics to aid in repairability, or reuse through efforts to maintain software beyond the vendors support schedule (or support porting efforts like Asahi).

Considering how much effort dedicated people put into these endeavours today out of passion - overcoming the most immense artificial roadblocks - imagine how many crazy projects would emerge by breaking down these barriers... otherwise known as innovation ;)

I would buy my MacBook Pro again right now if I could run Linux on it with full hardware acceleration, hardware support and battery life. The desire to innovate is there.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#427

Good lord, this is the whinge that never ends, isn’t it? If you want an Android phone, dozens if not hundreds of companies will sell you one. You can quite literally choose the level of openness you desire. Personally I prefer the Apple ecosystem where things just tend to work well. It would be difficult to care less about running something other than Safari on an iPhone. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy Apple’s produ…

I downvoted this because you're ignoring iMessage. The fact that Apple purposefully not only gives Android users a shitty experience when communicating with iOS users, but also ensures that the presence of an Android user can break the experience for everyone else in a group chat (e.g. degraded videos now for everyone) in iMessage is a blatant attempt to abuse their monopoly power (in the US at least where iMessage d…

The green bubbles break Apple's accessibility guidelines - making it more difficult to read (especially for visually impaired users). The better option is switching to Signal, but some people have strange hangups.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Pixel 5's security update end of life is in two weeks[0]. This is a phone that launched October 2020. My iPhone XS which I bought in 2018 just got the iOS 17 update and it's working pretty well. I want to be able to load whatever I want on my phone, but I also don't want to have to buy a new phone every couple years (or sooner! Looks like the 5a is still in production with security updates ending in 11 months) to…

The rumors are that the Pixel 8 and Pixel 8 Pro will launch with a promise of 7 years of updates, including not only security fixes and bug fixes but also feature drops. We’ll see what’s announces next month, but Google might be about to jump ahead of even the iPhone on this point. Disclosure: although I have worked for Google in the past, I haven’t worked for them in more than 8 years, never worked on Android or Pix…

Google absolutely is not about to jump ahead of Apple until they make good on that promise. Call us back in 7 years.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#430
post #283
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who decided the iPhone is a general-purpose computing device?

Everything that I purchase that contains a CPU should be within my power to run arbitrary code upon. Seriously, what site are we even on right now?

If you're going to make an appeal to identity: what kind of lame hackers need to appeal to a bunch of stuffy suits in Brussels to get homebrew running on a general purpose computer?
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