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A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

cambridgeblog.org

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Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#21

Post by jacquesm »

bombcar wrote: post #12
Justsignedup wrote: post #10

The worst part here is: He spent months researching 500 medical papers to even realize this was a problem. No way in hell will a single defense lawyer get someone to be able to research enough to figure this out. As stated, how many people are in jail or lost their kids due to something that didn't actually happen. And how many people don't know that a minor bump in the head for a baby could be life threatening, but…

I’ve heard credible rumors that SIDS is the “parent accidentally killed their child but we won’t tell them that” polite fiction.

That's the whole point here, isn't it: that 'what you've heard' isn't credible at all. There is no 'polite fiction' here, what there is is people looking for culprits when there are none. Does that meant that all such cases are accidents? No, because we know for a fact that some people really do hurt infants for whatever reason. But the evidence is apparently such that a large fraction of the cases that were thought to be criminal in actuality were not. So don't go on rumors or polite fictions when lives are at stake. Do the legwork before ruining people's lives.

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#23

Post by crazygringo »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #14

My oldest son has special needs. He's 2e -- gifted and learning disabled -- and has a serious medical condition associated with being very underweight. I put him in preschool to get him to talk. He could use sentences but wasn't. At the start of kindergarten, first, second and third grade, I spoke with the teacher, explained he was difficult, let them know I welcomed communication on any issue. They were thrilled and…

> Then he lost five pounds. He still felt better than he ever had and neither of us were concerned. His medical team implied I was in danger of being reported to children's services as an abusive mother.

But wasn't that valid cause for concern, especially for someone who should be a growing boy? If being underweight was a serious medical concern for him, losing 5 pounds seems like a big flashing red warning that something could be going wrong.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your story, but from what you've written, it sounds to me like their intervention successfully ensured he was eating enough when he wasn't before?

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#25

Post by DoreenMichele »

crazygringo wrote: post #23
DoreenMichele wrote: post #14

My oldest son has special needs. He's 2e -- gifted and learning disabled -- and has a serious medical condition associated with being very underweight. I put him in preschool to get him to talk. He could use sentences but wasn't. At the start of kindergarten, first, second and third grade, I spoke with the teacher, explained he was difficult, let them know I welcomed communication on any issue. They were thrilled and…

> Then he lost five pounds. He still felt better than he ever had and neither of us were concerned. His medical team implied I was in danger of being reported to children's services as an abusive mother. But wasn't that valid cause for concern, especially for someone who should be a growing boy? If being underweight was a serious medical concern for him, losing 5 pounds seems like a big flashing red warning that some…

You are missing the part where I harmed his health to comply with their expectations. He was fine and does better on a high quality diet than on a junk food diet.

Weight isn't the only metric that matters.

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#26

Post by bombcar »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #18
ncallaway wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who have you heard these rumors from? How did you determine them to be credible? My assumption is that any citation to a rumor should be totally dismissed if these questions can’t be answered.

It seems to me that this rumor is just an alternate framing of the original commenter's assertion that "a minor bump in the head for a baby could be life threatening, but we just mark it as SIDS". I think it's fair to be skeptical of both, but it's worth reflecting on how the same factual assertions can come across as either "science-informed speculation" or "crazy unsubstantiated rumor" depending on how you say them…

Exactly. And imagine you’re a doctor, and you have a dead child in front of you, crying parents, and a form to fill out. No possible way of filling out the form brings the child back to life, and one way makes it as easy as possible for everyone, and another results in potentially up to jail time.

Now do this repeatedly during your long and illustrious career.

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#27

Post by dartos »

kr0bat wrote: post #2

I came to realize that there was a long-standing scientific controversy in the field, and I felt that I had no choice but to get to the bottom of things myself. Although I am not a medical doctor, I hold a PhD in neuroscience and am familiar with critically reading scientific literature. I decided that I would invest as much time as necessary to learn everything I possibly could on the subject. At that point, there w…

I think that speaks more towards the author than higher education.

Definitely a tangent, but attributing that attitude to higher education is like someone attributing a doctor saving their life to an act of god. Like yeah if you squint I guess that’s true.

My experience with higher education has been that of administrators taking advantage of my naivety for profit, elitism towards those not in academia, and dismissal of any ideas that wouldn’t directly result in a grant or a good headline.

I wouldn’t really say that the author’s “mettle” is a result of the same environment.

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#28

Post by dartos »

drt5b7j wrote: post #4
kr0bat wrote: post #2

I came to realize that there was a long-standing scientific controversy in the field, and I felt that I had no choice but to get to the bottom of things myself. Although I am not a medical doctor, I hold a PhD in neuroscience and am familiar with critically reading scientific literature. I decided that I would invest as much time as necessary to learn everything I possibly could on the subject. At that point, there w…

[flagged]

And that’s solid advice for starting a tech company. (This is a y combinator website)

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#29

Post by jrochkind1 »

crazygringo wrote: post #23
DoreenMichele wrote: post #14

My oldest son has special needs. He's 2e -- gifted and learning disabled -- and has a serious medical condition associated with being very underweight. I put him in preschool to get him to talk. He could use sentences but wasn't. At the start of kindergarten, first, second and third grade, I spoke with the teacher, explained he was difficult, let them know I welcomed communication on any issue. They were thrilled and…

> Then he lost five pounds. He still felt better than he ever had and neither of us were concerned. His medical team implied I was in danger of being reported to children's services as an abusive mother. But wasn't that valid cause for concern, especially for someone who should be a growing boy? If being underweight was a serious medical concern for him, losing 5 pounds seems like a big flashing red warning that some…

The problem is that the phrase "a valid concern" would lead me to think "something doctors and parents should consult on (also with the child themself!) and determine if there is cause for alarm, and if so decide collaboratively what the proper course of action is." Sure! Of course! That's what you do with valid health concerns, right?

What it actually means is "something for which social workers will decide whether to take your child away from you for". That's a pretty big escalation from a "valid concern", but one that happens if "the system" decides you are a target. "A valid concern" is in that case a code word for "credible presumptive evidence of child abuse". A child being underweight is a valid thing to be concerned about, it is not on it's own credible presumptive evidence of abusive parenting, no.

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#30

Post by ncallaway »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #18
ncallaway wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who have you heard these rumors from? How did you determine them to be credible? My assumption is that any citation to a rumor should be totally dismissed if these questions can’t be answered.

It seems to me that this rumor is just an alternate framing of the original commenter's assertion that "a minor bump in the head for a baby could be life threatening, but we just mark it as SIDS". I think it's fair to be skeptical of both, but it's worth reflecting on how the same factual assertions can come across as either "science-informed speculation" or "crazy unsubstantiated rumor" depending on how you say them…

> or "crazy unsubstantiated rumor" depending on how you say them.

“How it was said” was literally presented as unsubstantiated rumor. It’s not worth reflecting that when someone says “I heard a rumor that X…” it sounds like an unsubstantiated rumor. It’s just the basic structure of English language.

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