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FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

ftc.gov

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Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#151

Post by shitlord »

hightrix wrote: post #11
tehlike wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, they don't have to rank it higher and people would still buy it. They are like Kirkland of Costco most often.

Exactly. I prefer Amazon Basics to YAYWOWND brand every day. It is one of the few brands on Amazon you can count on to not be Chinese crap. Even if it is made in China, the Amazon Basics products are generally good quality.

Amazon Basics products were previously known for causing fires and destroying electronic devices. See: https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/10/business/amazonbasics-electro...

I don't know if they ever fixed this problem (they have changed suppliers before), but I try to avoid using products from Amazon or no-name Chinese companies that plug into the wall.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#152

Post by atlasunshrugged »

bogwog wrote: post #81
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #58

Merits of this specific case aside, I find it really interesting that the FTC is going after Amazon now. They have pretty limited resources (especially relative to a massive tech co which can pour money into litigation) and have to pick and choose their battles carefully... I have to admit I'm a little frustrated that they're choosing to go after Amazon, which yes, imo the case definitely has merits and they do shady…

The FTC is bringing a lot of cases, not just the few big ones like this that make headlines. The DOJ also brings antitrust cases. See: * FTC: https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/cases-proceedings * DOJ: https://www.justice.gov/atr/antitrust-case-filings

I know, and I applaud the one they recently filed against Anesthesia Partners which is directly at the intersection of PE and healthcare, but they do have limited resources and have to make tough choices about cases they bring and ones they don't, and I wish they would focus on ones that are more impactful for my life (e.g., healthcare, education, housing) than marginal ones like Amazon or the one against Meta acquiring a VR company. I understand their rationale and am generally supportive, I just disagree with the prioritization.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#153

Post by babypuncher »

likpok wrote: post #109
catiopatio wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> post-iOS change What is the iOS change you’re referring to?

ATT, where apple hobbled other ad networks running on iOS. It used to be that DTC companies could use the fine-grained targeting offered by FB and Google to reach consumers without needing to go through a major distributor. Since the targeting is much less effective it's more expensive (potentially uneconomically so) to reach people. As a result, sellers are forced back to Amazon.

Businesses got along just fine before all that intense user tracking was even possible. If your business absolutely needs it to survive, then your business doesn't deserve to survive.

"boo hoo, I can't invade my users privacy anymore! Waaaaah! It's unfair"

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#154

Post by atlasunshrugged »

dragonwriter wrote: post #136
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #58

Merits of this specific case aside, I find it really interesting that the FTC is going after Amazon now. They have pretty limited resources (especially relative to a massive tech co which can pour money into litigation) and have to pick and choose their battles carefully... I have to admit I'm a little frustrated that they're choosing to go after Amazon, which yes, imo the case definitely has merits and they do shady…

> How about more of a focus on insurers who refuse claims, drug companies flouting the law, PE firms jacking up the cost of housing or contractors gouging the government (and therefore all of us)? Those aren't FTC issues regardless of merits, so they don't factor into FTC priorities. The first is mostly state insurance regulators, the second doesn't seem to be a violation of existing law (though it might be a legisla…

I'm not sure I agree but IANAL. Doesn't the fact that the FTC recently filed a case against a PE firm buying up anesthesia clinics and using that to jack up prices run counter to the example of the cost of housing? Or for contractors gouging the gov, my understanding is that PE firms have rolled up small defense contractors and then used monopoly power to gouge the government. That seems pretty firmly in their jurisdiction.

https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/cases-proceedings/2...

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#156

Post by atlasunshrugged »

janmo wrote: post #120
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #58

Merits of this specific case aside, I find it really interesting that the FTC is going after Amazon now. They have pretty limited resources (especially relative to a massive tech co which can pour money into litigation) and have to pick and choose their battles carefully... I have to admit I'm a little frustrated that they're choosing to go after Amazon, which yes, imo the case definitely has merits and they do shady…

There are many insurers, so this would mean many cases. There is only one Amazon and I am sure the FTC is receiving a ton of complaints against them.

I'm not sure I track. Sure there's only one Amazon, but there are a few major e-commerce providers (Shopify has been mentioned often, but also Walmart and other major) and more traditional retailers that compete with them.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#157

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

likpok wrote: post #99
_uhtu wrote: post #3

I'm honestly not sure how you could make the case that they aren't maintaining and abusing monopoly power. I mean they literally blatantly copy the designs of other companies who sell on amazon, then put their own results for their own products higher in search results than what they copied off of. It's incredibly blatantly anti-competitive.

The trouble with this argument (which gets made a lot) is that this is basically every large retailer. Walmart has great value, Safeway has safeway select, Target has good and gather. In all of these cases large retailers take well-performing products (i.e. look at their sales data to see what is selling well) and creates mimics. They put the generics right next to the original products, and then charge the original…

I think those great value products are not in fact produced by Walmart. It's the same product from the same company, just lower priced to appeal to price conscious customers.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#158

Post by waynesonfire »

autoexec wrote: post #86
HDThoreaun wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't all grocery stores do this?

Grocery stores sell generic foods, but they put them on the same shelf as the name brand stuff. They don't hide the original products in a darkened corner of the back room where no customer can see them. They don't shove their generic into your hand every time you reach for a name brand. Amazon can hide the real products from search, or push it to the bottom of results, while putting their own products at the top of…

there is limited shelf space. they take the original product off the shelf.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#159

Post by lancesells »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #28
zht wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found that many people will spend a lot of time and energy defending large companies (and often their CEOs) against perceived bullying. Amazon, Tesla, Elon, Meta, etc etc. I don't really understand it.

and others spend a lot of time attacking large companies simply because they are large. In this case, AMZN. AMZN is like the cheapest place to buy things online. But it's not the only place. So, why is FTC going after them?

> others spend a lot of time attacking large companies simply because they are large

This isn't the FTC's complaint but search "How Amazon treats their workers" and see why large companies get attacked. Typically the only way you're going to become this large is by abusing people in some sort of way. Amazon abuses their workers, their sellers, etc. Meta abuses their users. Google abuses their users. Uber abuses their drivers.

I would love to see 20 Amazons where half have a decent quality of life for workers compared to 1 Amazon where it's just awful for everyone except maybe consumers (debatable), executives, and tech workers.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#160

Post by dawnerd »

xyst wrote: post #50

Decouple Amazon Warehouse division from Amazon Web Services (AWS largely subsidizes losses incurred by warehouse division), then we will see change. Right now FTC going after low hanging fruit. But we all know Amazon will challenge it in court, appeal, appeal, appeal, pay the reduced fine, slow roll any changes, and business will continue as usual. Break up the tech giants and each individual unit cannot survive as-i…

Just breaking off AWS would be enough to see change. I see people saying they should spin off their house brands but that wouldn’t fly when other big retailers also sell their own brands along side third parties.
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