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The casino in your pocket

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Re: The casino in your pocket

#201

Post by giraffe_lady »

mholm wrote: post #199
ziddoap wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said they've spent "thousands" on a single mobile game. We might just have different standards, but that's past "social drinker" status to me. I don't know anyone in my social circle (online or offline) that have spent that much on a mobile game, and my social circle games a lot. How many thousands does someone have to spend to move past "social drinker"?

The difference seems to be whether its social or alone. I've never spent anything on microtransactions/f2p, but I've certainly spent money on alcohol. It's a world of difference spending $100 in a night with good friends, and $50 on a night alone at home.

Alcohol recovery meetings are absolutely full of people who have to say "I thought if I wasn't doing it alone it wasn't alcoholism." The social context of use is only one factor, it can't be used by itself to determine if the use is a problem.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#202

Post by currymj »

kyteland wrote: post #122
vintermann wrote: post #85

> In a casino, any rational adult expects this. Whoa, no way we don't. I do expect that while the game has a house edge in a casino, if something seems random (roll of dice, draw of cards) then it's random in the way it seems, e.g. that there's a 1 in 6 chance of rolling a 6. I'm pretty sure that's regulated in most places. That online casinos and casino-like games rampantly cheat is another matter, I do expect that…

It is regulated. If it looks like a die in a game of chance then it is a fair die. If it looks like a deck of cards, it is a fair deck of cards. This is written into the gambling laws of each regulated gaming jurisdiction. And like most regulations, these rules exist precisely because someone tried exactly this scheme at some point. And the regulators saw it and said "Oh hell no" and made a rule. As the saying goes,…

as I understand it, they are allowed to get pretty creative with the odds on "reel" type video slot machines.

the odds of a given outcome have to match the published odds in the payout table, but the animated reels don't have to be an accurate physical simulation of reels -- they are allowed to make it look like there was a "near miss" of a jackpot for instance.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#203

Post by lsmeducation »

bakugo wrote: post #128
lmm wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's just the opposite. Kids who've grown up with this crap will be wise to the tricks. Those who don't get exposed until adulthood have no resistance. Just like how the younger generation is pretty good at using social media responsibly and prioritizing stronger relationships, whereas the older generation get hooked and spend their whole lives yelling in newspaper comment sections.

> Just like how the younger generation is pretty good at using social media responsibly and prioritizing stronger relationships I legitimately can't tell if this comment is meant to be ironic or not.

Our friend has not visited Tiktok lately or played any of the popular online games. These kids are fucking HOOKED 24/7.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#204

Post by secabeen »

hristov wrote: post #37

This is pretty screwed up, because it kind of trains your brain to be a gambling brain. To crave the instant gratification, the high of risk taking etc. I think the time has come when android and ios should make a special versions of their online shops for children and teenagers and simply ban those types of games from those shops. This will at least prevent children from having their brains rewired. Of course this w…

> I think the time has come when android and ios should make a special versions of their online shops for children and teenagers and simply ban those types of games from those shops. This will at least prevent children from having their brains rewired. Of course this will remove the vast majority of games from the online shops, but so be it.

Amazon did this with their Kids+ service, at least they did 5-10 years ago. They had a selection of popular apps with all the monetization removed. My daughter and I played a lot of OG Plants vs Zombies as a straight game, really fun. I later installed the public Google Play version to revisit it, and it felt completely different, with all the gates and upselling we avoided back then.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#205

Post by oarsinsync »

ziddoap wrote: post #197
giraffe_lady wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still makes you a "social drinker" in this context. We need to hear from the 30 rack a night folks to get a fuller picture.

They said they've spent "thousands" on a single mobile game. We might just have different standards, but that's past "social drinker" status to me. I don't know anyone in my social circle (online or offline) that have spent that much on a mobile game, and my social circle games a lot. How many thousands does someone have to spend to move past "social drinker"?

> They said they've spent "thousands" on a single mobile game. We might just have different standards, but that's past "social drinker" status to me.

Assuming “thousands” means 5000, thats 416 per month. Taking an average cost of 10/drink (5 for beer, 15 for cocktail - this skews higher in major cities, lower out of major cities, lower still outside of cities), thats ~8 drinks a week.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#206

Post by [deleted] »

lmm wrote: post #51
lsmeducation wrote: post #23

You're gonna be able to easily get these kids to lock into all kinds of financing structures in the future.

I think it's just the opposite. Kids who've grown up with this crap will be wise to the tricks. Those who don't get exposed until adulthood have no resistance. Just like how the younger generation is pretty good at using social media responsibly and prioritizing stronger relationships, whereas the older generation get hooked and spend their whole lives yelling in newspaper comment sections.

[deleted]

Re: The casino in your pocket

#207

Post by pierat »

xcdzvyn wrote: post #76
hristov wrote: post #37

This is pretty screwed up, because it kind of trains your brain to be a gambling brain. To crave the instant gratification, the high of risk taking etc. I think the time has come when android and ios should make a special versions of their online shops for children and teenagers and simply ban those types of games from those shops. This will at least prevent children from having their brains rewired. Of course this w…

> I think the time has come when android and ios should make a special versions of their online shops for children and teenagers and simply ban those types of games from those shops. IMHO this shouldn't [have to] be any of Apple or Google's business. It's a parent's responsibility to parent their child, not some conglomerate's.

Not today, Reagan.

Deregulation is not the answer. Its a bad hack to claim "personal responsibility" on societal systemic issues.

Gambling, and control and regulation of, is one of those societal systemic problems that can kill communities.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#208

Post by hotnfresh »

ramesh31 wrote: post #188
a13o wrote: post #152

Having worked in the f2p games industry for a decade, nothing is as you perceive. Your entire reward stream is scheduled down to the coin, in spreadsheets written by people like me. I know how much you have today and how much you will have tomorrow. Any reward presentation, assume there is a loot table behind it. You see 4 cards on the screen, but there may as well be 1 big slot lever; cuz no matter where you tap you…

This is precisely why slot machines are one of the most heavily regulated consumer devices in existence. They simply cannot and will not ever be fair otherwise. Mobile gambling (including "loot boxes") is just another regulatory capture play like AirBnB and Uber.

The money in competitive gaming is also in gambling, I gather, from having briefly worked for a company part of which did video game gambling (and the ownership structure and relationship with various tournaments was about as muddy and twisty as you’d expect—oh and their other big thing was hard-right media, including some radio personalities you may have heard of)

Re: The casino in your pocket

#209

Post by AlexandrB »

gambiting wrote: post #114
chucky_z wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple Arcade allows these types of games and removes all monetization like this. The games are still kinda predatory in their frustrations, however there’s no coin to spend. You just randomly get items and that’s it.

So I tried Bloons TD6 on apple arcade, a game which has very heavy monetization strategies, thinking ok, maybe the apple arcade version is finally playable without spending money - and no, they literally just removed the in-game store but haven't adjusted the curves it takes you to earn anything so if you want to unlock anything prepare for a VERY long grind.

Situations like this are very illustrative of the fact that, despite industry claims to the contrary, this kind of monetization is not "optional". It taints the whole game experience. Just like ad breaks imposed a specific format on television shows before streaming (e.g. plot cliffhangers that anticipated ad breaks), microtransactions fundamentally alter the design of most games that include them - whether you buy any of the microtransactions or not.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#210

Post by ziddoap »

oarsinsync wrote: post #205
ziddoap wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said they've spent "thousands" on a single mobile game. We might just have different standards, but that's past "social drinker" status to me. I don't know anyone in my social circle (online or offline) that have spent that much on a mobile game, and my social circle games a lot. How many thousands does someone have to spend to move past "social drinker"?

> They said they've spent "thousands" on a single mobile game. We might just have different standards, but that's past "social drinker" status to me. Assuming “thousands” means 5000, thats 416 per month. Taking an average cost of 10/drink (5 for beer, 15 for cocktail - this skews higher in major cities, lower out of major cities, lower still outside of cities), thats ~8 drinks a week.

I regret choosing to continue the GPs use of "social drinker" to establish the "level" of spending.

If you spend thousands of dollars on a mobile game, that is dramatically outside the average (of my experiences).

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