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FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

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Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#181

Post by vel0city »

toast0 wrote: post #131
deelowe wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take the null hypothesis that these incentives push all video streaming to Apple+. The total bandwidth hasn't changed, all that's happened is that is it's only streamed over Apple+ now. How does this help with their spectrum constraints?

T-Mobile USA has a pretty user friendly version of this on many/most of its plans. If a music streaming service participates to label its traffic, that data is zero rated for eligible users. If a video streaming service participates to label its traffic and limit bandwidth (advertising says 480p, but I think it's really a bitrate cap), then data is zero rated for eligible users. On plans with a high speed data cap, u…

So how do I sign up to get my home media server added to be zero-rated?

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#182

Post by KerrAvon »

s3p wrote: post #119
somenameforme wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how long do you expect your timeline to playout on? It's been more than 6 years now, and we're talking about corporations that regularly have difficulty seeing beyond next quarter, and have absolutely no qualms pissing off the entire world if it means another buck. Why wouldn't they have rushed to enact the new laws immediately under an FCC political establishment that would have been favorable to such? It seems…

This is just not true. There is no competition. Cities have Comcast or Spectrum; they don't have both. #3 and #4 in Wireless just merged. It is literally T-mobile, Verizon, or AT&T. Where would the consumers go to? They all do the exact same thing. And once one competitor makes the switch, they all will, since they all make more money. This literally happened when T-mobile sold streaming as an addon package [0] or wh…

It's not gotten worse strictly because California passed a very strong net neutrality law and the telcos were hoping the legal system would kill that so they could do whatever they pleased.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Internet_Consumer_P...

Not working out for them so far:

> Ninth Circuit ruled unanimously in January 2022 that California's net neutrality law may continue to be enforced and cannot be overridden by the FCC as, current as of the decision, Internet services were classified as information services

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#183

Post by rsingel »

vxNsr wrote: post #146
CalRobert wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seem to recall seeing it more a few years ago but there were definitely "Unlimited whatsapp" etc. style deals around. Maybe it's less relevant as data has gotten cheap enough so as to be a non-issue for most people. https://www.androidauthority.com/freedompop-sim-card-unlimit... for instance (but that's old)

NN rules didn’t (and likely won’t) affect mobile carriers due to the limited nature of wireless spectrum, the FCC views throttling and data prioritization as a necessary evil.

This is not true. FCC net neutrality rules apply to mobile carriers.

So do the ones in California Europe India and Canada.

There is leewway for a reasonable ment, but those measures can only be used temporarily during times of congestion and have to be as application agnostic as possible

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#184

Post by babypuncher »

brightball wrote: post #42
JohnTHaller wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have gotten it, but with services not websites. Mobile providers will sell you an "Unlimited" data plan that throttles everything after 25GB a month. Streaming Spotify and Apple Music won't count against that soft data cap. Streaming other music services will count against it. Video streaming over YouTube, Netflix, etc is capped at 480p levels. If you pay an additional monthly fee, you get upgraded to "Unlimited P…

Mobile providers are a different beast because there’s a limit on radio spectrum. Throttling is necessary.

Then throttle everyone equally. Don't throttle your competitors while exempting your own subsidiaries, that is unfair.

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#185

Post by billy99k »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #6
cddotdotslash wrote: post #4

One of the biggest arguments I remember being made back when net neutrality was a hot topic was that ISPs would bundle and sell specific websites as tiered plans. Infographics like this one [1] were shared widely. Has this happened in the US? I’ve definitely seen ISPs start to apply data caps and throttling, but haven’t seen the aforementioned packaging (at least with the major ISPs). I ask because this is one of the…

We have gotten it, but with services not websites. Mobile providers will sell you an "Unlimited" data plan that throttles everything after 25GB a month. Streaming Spotify and Apple Music won't count against that soft data cap. Streaming other music services will count against it. Video streaming over YouTube, Netflix, etc is capped at 480p levels. If you pay an additional monthly fee, you get upgraded to "Unlimited P…

I don't really see a problem with this. Bandwidth is finite and if you have a little more money, you should be able to pay for it.

The alternative is that everyone has data caps

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#186

Post by andrewla »

dd36 wrote: post #106
cainxinth wrote: post #49

A lot of people in these comments are making the case that removing net neutrality didn’t do much harm, so why bother bringing it back. Let me make the counterclaim. The argument against net neutrality is that it might stifle innovation. Well, we had net neutrality for many years and innovation didn’t seem all that stifled. Hence, what’s the harm in bringing it back?

I am going to repeat this in every chain: net neutrality is the law in California.

Wait -- I'm genuinely curious -- does that mean that data-throttling plans from mobile providers do not exist in California? All the plans I see (in New York) say things like "unlimited but video will be SD instead of HD" which seems a frank violation of the principle of net neutrality (not to mention a bit of a technical marvel).

Are these plans legal in California, or is the California law not sufficiently specific to rein in this kind of thing?

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#187

Post by BeFlatXIII »

lr4444lr wrote: post #154
AlexandrB wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If net neutrality is not relevant anyways, why are ISPs so dead set against it?

Because it kept them under the FCC's thumb as common carriers, forcing them into inefficiencies to comply with regulations. There's a ton of stuff I want the govt. more involved with on the internet: data privacy, clamping down on CSAM, section 230 issues... forcing ISPs to take a total hands off approach to every traffic source on their pipes? That wasn't one of them. NN harmed ISPs' incentive to innovate. I have si…

Which specific inefficiencies would they be forced into as common carriers? Would they be ones I'd notice as a customer, or merely vague "reduced incentive to innovate"?

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#188

Post by vel0city »

frumper wrote: post #174
vel0city wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a more potent example, AT&T did a similar thing with streaming TV service, but they only exempted their own TV service. Using Hulu? Data cap. Fubo? Data cap. AT&T TV Now? Highest quality, no cap.

I just signed up for AT&T fiber in California and they've completely removed data caps for it.

I've got AT&T fiber in Texas and yes there are also no caps. I was speaking of their mobile service.

I'm not sure if they still do this zero rating or not now that they no longer own the TV service.

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#189

Post by BeFlatXIII »

xwdv wrote: post #100
cainxinth wrote: post #49

A lot of people in these comments are making the case that removing net neutrality didn’t do much harm, so why bother bringing it back. Let me make the counterclaim. The argument against net neutrality is that it might stifle innovation. Well, we had net neutrality for many years and innovation didn’t seem all that stifled. Hence, what’s the harm in bringing it back?

The harm is that it takes away resources from other important issues that require our focus right now.

How many resources would be taken away from which issues?

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#190

Post by Tostino »

Keegs wrote: post #116
xwdv wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The harm is that it takes away resources from other important issues that require our focus right now.

I know you're kidding, but it surprises me how often I hear the idea that an organization the size of the FCC can't multitask.

Especially when never bringing up what some of those more important things could be.
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