Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot • Hacker News Board

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#51

Post by Jem » Wed, Mar 28, 2012, 1:10 PM UTC

unalone wrote: post #42

jasonlotito wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We want women to shut up and stop telling us that there's a problem with how we behave... > As you can see I've got perfectly rational explanations for why I'm so irritated by women calling out sexist behaviors. > I want them to stop calling things sexist so that I can stop worrying about their feelings. > I just thought it was funny that Dave said something that sounds like sex talk, and wanted all of you to know!…

I was worried about people thinking I meant what I said when I wrote it. Then I decided that maybe the fact that people could theoretically take it seriously was a good reason to keep it how it was.

It certainly made me think - I'll even admit that for a moment my cursor was hovering over the down vote arrow.

It's sad, but it made me think BECAUSE there are people who think like this (and I've seen similar serious responses here on HN.)

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#52

Post by alextgordon » Wed, Mar 28, 2012, 1:11 PM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #50

vasco wrote: post #5

I think this would never happen where I live. Honestly this seems like its the same thing as you guys in the US not being able to say merry christmas because it might offend someone. What's so wrong with being offended anyway? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMoDt3nSHs&t=3m30s I think people over there just take everything to seriously.

Honestly this seems like its the same thing as you guys in the US not being able to say merry christmas because it might offend someone. Is this a common perception of those outside the US about what goes on inside the US?

It is a common perception that Americans are prudish and easily offended. In the UK at least.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#53

Post by Harkins » Wed, Mar 28, 2012, 1:11 PM UTC

jtreminio wrote: post #2

sex·ist [sek-sist] adjective 1. pertaining to, involving, or fostering sexism: a sexist remark; sexist advertising. sex·ism [sek-siz-uhm] noun 1. attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles. 2. discrimination or devaluation based on a person's sex, as in restricted job opportunities; especially, such discrimination directed against women. I don't think the bot is exactly sexist. It's stupid…

Look up programming jargon in whichever dictionary you found this definition. Something with a common meaning, like 'domain', 'array', or 'tree'. How well does it apply?

Words like "sexist", "sexism", "homophobia", and "racism" are jargon for the folks studying gender, psychology, sociology. The common usage, the descriptive usage you see in dictionaries, is not appropriate and will only confuse things.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#54

Post by olalonde » Wed, Mar 28, 2012, 1:11 PM UTC

I have noticed an interesting double standard on HN: while working in porn is perfectly fine, saying TWSS jokes is sexist because it objectivizes women as sexual objects.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#55

Post by hessenwolf » Wed, Mar 28, 2012, 1:12 PM UTC

FeministHacker wrote: post #48

vasco wrote: post #5

I think this would never happen where I live. Honestly this seems like its the same thing as you guys in the US not being able to say merry christmas because it might offend someone. What's so wrong with being offended anyway? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMoDt3nSHs&t=3m30s I think people over there just take everything to seriously.

http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/ Lighten up, I didn't mean it, I didn't intend to upset you, so it must be ok!

(article forwarded to well-dressed coder-girlfriend)

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#56

Post by pyre » Wed, Mar 28, 2012, 1:14 PM UTC

Great post! A couple critiques though:

  > Since the IRC channels I am normally in use SSL, I
  > had to set up my own channel on a public IRC server
  > for testing. It took a while to get the settings
  > right, but finally I succeeded!

This part was a little confusing because it wasn't mentioned until Step 3 that LogBot didn't have SSL support.

  > There have been complaints that we have too many bots
  > in the channel now.

  > There were several “Make them shut up!” responses.

This part is a little confusing because up to this point of the post you've only mentioned the TWSS and TWSRS bots. It would be clearer had you mentioned that there were a number of bots in the channel. (Unless I missed mention of other bots, in which case disregard.)

For example, in my work IRC channel there is a single bot that does everything vs. several single-purpose bots.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#57

Post by oinksoft » Wed, Mar 28, 2012, 1:16 PM UTC

Step 1: I copied the LogBot code into local files, and tried running it.

And the code is pretty much that, with a few extra lines ... a copy and paste job. It really isn't difficult to write an IRC bot using the standard library ... here's my shit one that sits in ##javascript: https://github.com/pigdude/pigbot

Edit: I became more curious about what the author works on -- by the favicon, I thought she must be involved with the Debian project! Turns out "Dreamwidth Studios" thought that flipping the Debian logo was an original idea. Digging just a little deeper on the Dreamwidth site makes it seem that the author mostly works on documentation and things like that. So I guess it makes sense that the code is copypasta?

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#58

Post by tomp » Wed, Mar 28, 2012, 1:16 PM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #50

vasco wrote: post #5

I think this would never happen where I live. Honestly this seems like its the same thing as you guys in the US not being able to say merry christmas because it might offend someone. What's so wrong with being offended anyway? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMoDt3nSHs&t=3m30s I think people over there just take everything to seriously.

Honestly this seems like its the same thing as you guys in the US not being able to say merry christmas because it might offend someone. Is this a common perception of those outside the US about what goes on inside the US?

Yes. I find it extremely funny/awkward that you say police person instead of policeman/woman, flight attendant instead of steward/stewardess, horizontally challenged instead of fat, can't say fuck on TV (but it's ok to carry guns and kill millions of innocent Afghans and support Israel's invasion of Palestine), that you can't drink under 18/21 (I don't know which one) not even if your parents are around (and you call your country "the land of the free"), that you can't watch certain movies in the cinema but there are action/murder movies on TV all the time, that you say African American when you actually mean all black people, in general that you put so much emphasis on the form but so little on the actual content.

Btw, I would never say flight attendant/horizontally challenged/... instead of the alternative, simply because it's longer, and I'm lazy.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#59

Post by Harkins » Wed, Mar 28, 2012, 1:16 PM UTC

coob wrote: post #4

I'm struggling to come up with an answer to this question: Has technology ever solved issues with social etiquette?

Yes. An example was posted here in the last few weeks - there's a startup whose name I can't remember that plans meetups of three men and three women. They had a serious problem with cancellations, which was solved by requiring the canceller to record a voicemail to be played to the other people. Cancellations fell off 80% or more. (I'm sorry, I can't remember more specifics - anyone have the link?)

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#60

Post by Strallus » Wed, Mar 28, 2012, 1:17 PM UTC

unalone wrote: post #13

jtreminio wrote: post #2

sex·ist [sek-sist] adjective 1. pertaining to, involving, or fostering sexism: a sexist remark; sexist advertising. sex·ism [sek-siz-uhm] noun 1. attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles. 2. discrimination or devaluation based on a person's sex, as in restricted job opportunities; especially, such discrimination directed against women. I don't think the bot is exactly sexist. It's stupid…

> 1. attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles [...] devaluation based on a person's sex Here're the categories you could argue the bot falls into. The point of the "that's what she said" is to point out when phrases sound like something a woman might have said in bed or during some sort of sexual activity, furthering the already staggeringly vast perception our society has of women as pr…

Most slang words for penis (and other slang words describing men) are also normal words. (wood, hard, sausage, pork, balls) This is not the case with slang words for the female anatomy, which usually have no place in daily conversation. Google "slang for penis" and "slang for vagina" if you don't believe me/don't know very many slang words.

Consequently, something a women would say in bed is more likely to crop up in general conversation than something a guy would say in bed.

I really don't see this joke as being sexist at all, and it doesn't objectify women. Who cares if a woman might say that in bed? The fact that the woman is the one talking seems to indicate that she is less of a sexual object, not more of one.