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The casino in your pocket

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Re: The casino in your pocket

#131

Post by [deleted] »

meheleventyone wrote: post #92
anonymous_sorry wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a meatspace casino, if someone shows you 4 face down cards, asks you to pick one, and then turns them all up to reveal 3 prizes and 1 "you lose" card, you can be fairly sure you had a 25% chance of losing. If the croupier used sleight of hand or secret e-ink cards to turn your card into the "you lose" card after you'd picked it, that would be fraud. The dark patterns and dopamine manipulation are bad enough, but i…

In that specific case sure, but Casino slot machines do a loooooooot to present distorted odds.

[deleted]

Re: The casino in your pocket

#132

Post by JopV »

gambiting wrote: post #114
chucky_z wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple Arcade allows these types of games and removes all monetization like this. The games are still kinda predatory in their frustrations, however there’s no coin to spend. You just randomly get items and that’s it.

So I tried Bloons TD6 on apple arcade, a game which has very heavy monetization strategies, thinking ok, maybe the apple arcade version is finally playable without spending money - and no, they literally just removed the in-game store but haven't adjusted the curves it takes you to earn anything so if you want to unlock anything prepare for a VERY long grind.

The Apple Arcade and Netflix versions give you double the Monkey Money as the microtransaction version. I agree they should have changed more, but it's not true they didn't adjust it.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#133

Post by bondarchuk »

dspillett wrote: post #120
ehnto wrote: post #32

It has been fascinating and demoralizing to watch monetization roll out. To younger generations like my brother, they don't know any different, it's just part if gaming for them. But at least something like aesthetic loot crates are a sideshow to the actual game. Some games are good at keeping the separate and you can understand that it's just how they choose to fund the game. When the whole game is just a loot crate…

> It has been fascinating and demoralizing to watch monetization roll out. To younger generations like my brother, they don't know any different, it's just part if gaming for them. A step worse too: they are being trained that being bombarded with adverts is acceptable. Genuinely heard (couldn't avoid hearing, the voices were fairly loud) on a train the other week a dad explaining to his charge how he should “watch t…

>A step worse too: they are being trained that being bombarded with adverts is acceptable.

We have all been trained that way. The cities in the developed world where you can step outside and walk around for a bit without seeing billboards can be counted on one hand.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#134

Post by bluesign »

kyteland wrote: post #122
vintermann wrote: post #85

> In a casino, any rational adult expects this. Whoa, no way we don't. I do expect that while the game has a house edge in a casino, if something seems random (roll of dice, draw of cards) then it's random in the way it seems, e.g. that there's a 1 in 6 chance of rolling a 6. I'm pretty sure that's regulated in most places. That online casinos and casino-like games rampantly cheat is another matter, I do expect that…

It is regulated. If it looks like a die in a game of chance then it is a fair die. If it looks like a deck of cards, it is a fair deck of cards. This is written into the gambling laws of each regulated gaming jurisdiction. And like most regulations, these rules exist precisely because someone tried exactly this scheme at some point. And the regulators saw it and said "Oh hell no" and made a rule. As the saying goes,…

normally it is something like: it looks like poker (single player) but with some bonus side game/bet added to add more edge to casino, where it tries to give you an illusion that you have more chance.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#135

Post by keithalewis »

ehnto wrote: post #105
keithalewis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean people should be held personally accountable for their actions? Next thing you know we might be living in a country full of responsible citizens. /s

They are accountable, they lose their money just like you'd expect. But I don't think we should let companies get away with exploiting people either. They have the upper hand, when it comes to exploiting psychology of the everyman.

Like advertisers do? Every day. All day long. We might be in agreement about the pernicious effect those have on society. Education is the antidote, not more feckless laws.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#136

Post by doctorhandshake »

This article employs a common tautological use of ‘algorithm’ I see more often than I’d like. It explains that there is an underlying method to something, explains how the method works, then further clarifies by explaining that it’s an algorithm, with a link to the Wikipedia entry for the word. It’s framed almost as a reveal, as though the rest of the article hadn’t already explained the same thing in other words. There’s some magic to this word that gives it some kind of recursive emphasis - you can provide a completely sufficient explanation for an algorithm without naming it one, and somehow up the stakes by invoking the word all the same.

Another comment, more on-topic: it may surprise some to learn that the ‘crane’ or ‘claw’ games in arcades and rest stops are also games of chance, not games of skill. They are programmed with the value of their prizes, the cost to play, and the operating margin the operator would like to have. The machine handles the decision of who wins, when.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#137

Post by underdeserver »

This reminds me of the claw machines you see in malls.

They look like something you can be good at - place the claw more accurately, choose a toy placed at a cleaner angle - but what they actually do internally is randomly give you a (say) 10% chance, if you hit it you will grab the toy (unless you're REALLY far from one), if not you won't.

The illusion is there, but the profit is stable and guaranteed.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#138

Post by xmcqdpt2 »

vintermann wrote: post #85

> In a casino, any rational adult expects this. Whoa, no way we don't. I do expect that while the game has a house edge in a casino, if something seems random (roll of dice, draw of cards) then it's random in the way it seems, e.g. that there's a 1 in 6 chance of rolling a 6. I'm pretty sure that's regulated in most places. That online casinos and casino-like games rampantly cheat is another matter, I do expect that…

Exactly! This isn't a casino, it's three card Monte. It's not gambling it's being conned. This should be outright illegal.

The rules for slot machines are quite intricate in many jurisdictions. Ontario for example requires minimum payouts of 85%, no change in payout schedule based on eg patron or day of the week, monitoring of machines, rules around serving intoxicated patrons etc.

https://www.auditor.on.ca/en/content/annualreports/arreports...

But then when an app is involved, it's complete lawlessness and we go back to 19th century street scams. The app stores should be regulated so much harder, they are literally running illegal gambling games.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#139

Post by dspillett »

bondarchuk wrote: post #133
dspillett wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has been fascinating and demoralizing to watch monetization roll out. To younger generations like my brother, they don't know any different, it's just part if gaming for them. A step worse too: they are being trained that being bombarded with adverts is acceptable. Genuinely heard (couldn't avoid hearing, the voices were fairly loud) on a train the other week a dad explaining to his charge how he should “watch t…

> A step worse too: they are being trained that being bombarded with adverts is acceptable. We have all been trained that way. The cities in the developed world where you can step outside and walk around for a bit without seeing billboards can be counted on one hand.

Though in the case I heard the viewing was less passive: the kid was being encouraged to seek out adverts for more in-game whatevers.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#140

Post by TeMPOraL »

fer wrote: post #81
fbdab103 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...which was bringing in about 30 millions EURO per month, was the only thing keeping the company alive. I am curious what were the expenses. Few things are as simple as they appear, but from the mobile games I have seen, they look like they could be put together by tiny development teams: simplistic (+recyclable) art and rules. Once the foundational app is created, feels like the further development could happen on…

I know for a fact that there's at least one company (that I can't name) that offers what I would call "Addiction as a Service". Their system allows to create n-dimensional currency systems (coins, diamonds, etc), currency conversion rules, collectible management, in-game stores with their schedules, crafting/merging logic, probability distributions (including "dark distributions" like OP's link) and even prices (for…

> I know for a fact that there's at least one company (that I can't name) that offers what I would call "Addiction as a Service".

Ouch. Of course they do.

I don't even know why reading this surprised me at first. With the explosion of mobile games following pretty much the same addiction mechanics but with different skins, it was only a matter of time for someone to package mechanics and offer them in form of a backend service.

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