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The casino in your pocket

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Re: The casino in your pocket

#111

Post by aziaziazi »

xcdzvyn wrote: post #76
hristov wrote: post #37

This is pretty screwed up, because it kind of trains your brain to be a gambling brain. To crave the instant gratification, the high of risk taking etc. I think the time has come when android and ios should make a special versions of their online shops for children and teenagers and simply ban those types of games from those shops. This will at least prevent children from having their brains rewired. Of course this w…

> I think the time has come when android and ios should make a special versions of their online shops for children and teenagers and simply ban those types of games from those shops. IMHO this shouldn't [have to] be any of Apple or Google's business. It's a parent's responsibility to parent their child, not some conglomerate's.

You need car manufacturers that propose models with seatbelts so you can choose a safe option. After some years anyone agrees seatbelts are great and then they become required.

Responsible parents could choose a platform over another based on what they want for their children but that’s only possible if this option exist. It’s a mental health issue versus free market business, and we know what side wins when it’s not regulated.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#112

Post by Zagitta »

xcdzvyn wrote: post #76
hristov wrote: post #37

This is pretty screwed up, because it kind of trains your brain to be a gambling brain. To crave the instant gratification, the high of risk taking etc. I think the time has come when android and ios should make a special versions of their online shops for children and teenagers and simply ban those types of games from those shops. This will at least prevent children from having their brains rewired. Of course this w…

> I think the time has come when android and ios should make a special versions of their online shops for children and teenagers and simply ban those types of games from those shops. IMHO this shouldn't [have to] be any of Apple or Google's business. It's a parent's responsibility to parent their child, not some conglomerate's.

Apple lost that "shouldn't have to" when they decided to parent society by using theft as an excuse to serialize parts and prevent third party repairs.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#113

Post by jstanley »

TylerE wrote: post #17
Terr_ wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like: "There's absolutely no reason for the executive to embezzle - they don't need to, they already have the cushy job." Cheating means greater profit, and (unless caught) more-reliable profit.

Except they're competing. If players think they win more at Casino B than Casino A, Casino A makes less, not more.

And yet people still go to casinos instead of standing alone in the street, so it can't be as simple as that.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#114

Post by gambiting »

chucky_z wrote: post #40
hristov wrote: post #37

This is pretty screwed up, because it kind of trains your brain to be a gambling brain. To crave the instant gratification, the high of risk taking etc. I think the time has come when android and ios should make a special versions of their online shops for children and teenagers and simply ban those types of games from those shops. This will at least prevent children from having their brains rewired. Of course this w…

Apple Arcade allows these types of games and removes all monetization like this. The games are still kinda predatory in their frustrations, however there’s no coin to spend. You just randomly get items and that’s it.

So I tried Bloons TD6 on apple arcade, a game which has very heavy monetization strategies, thinking ok, maybe the apple arcade version is finally playable without spending money - and no, they literally just removed the in-game store but haven't adjusted the curves it takes you to earn anything so if you want to unlock anything prepare for a VERY long grind.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#115

Post by Ensorceled »

spondylosaurus wrote: post #69
peterlk wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If people are dumb enough to consentually waste time and money on casinos, they deserve to lose their time and money. I find this to be a very naive perspective. It’s not how addiction works, and even people who want to stop sometimes cannot. And even if you buy into the belief that we shouldn’t help them, what about their kids? What about the communities around them that are worse for having addicts who are pourin…

IRL casinos employ all kinds of tactics to get people in the door, too. Cheap food, "free" gifts, all in the hopes that you'll cave and start gambling once you're in. And then they have their claws in you.

Yes. IRL casinos are also bad.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#116

Post by numpad0 »

efitz wrote: post #43
ehnto wrote: post #32

It has been fascinating and demoralizing to watch monetization roll out. To younger generations like my brother, they don't know any different, it's just part if gaming for them. But at least something like aesthetic loot crates are a sideshow to the actual game. Some games are good at keeping the separate and you can understand that it's just how they choose to fund the game. When the whole game is just a loot crate…

>something like aesthetic loot crates are a sideshow No, they are very much a part of the experience. The anticipation of the reward and the tension build while the opening animation plays is an addiction mechanism. This is why we wrap presents and why “blind bags” are so successful (and also why toddlers will watch “surprise egg” videos for hours).

On that aesthetic, and promised satisfaction - I once read some offhand BBS post that catharsis works slightly differently in gambling and other entertainment, such that, the anticipation phase is built up the same, but the release phase is crippled. This is so that the player is only partially satisfied and left frustrated in seek for a deserved full gratification, which closes the loop.

One clear demonstration of this I have seen is the lootbox screen in a pay-once game Vampire Survivors[1], which developer has background in casino software. This one is rather absurd that I almost believe it's intended for cultural preservation.

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20pFsokokjo

Re: The casino in your pocket

#117

Post by tetris11 »

spondylosaurus wrote: post #69
peterlk wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If people are dumb enough to consentually waste time and money on casinos, they deserve to lose their time and money. I find this to be a very naive perspective. It’s not how addiction works, and even people who want to stop sometimes cannot. And even if you buy into the belief that we shouldn’t help them, what about their kids? What about the communities around them that are worse for having addicts who are pourin…

IRL casinos employ all kinds of tactics to get people in the door, too. Cheap food, "free" gifts, all in the hopes that you'll cave and start gambling once you're in. And then they have their claws in you.

Everybody and their dog has a vice of some kind. If casinos knew what your vice was, they would serve it up to you with a pretty bow and tell you that the first hit is free.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#118

Post by mschuster91 »

TylerE wrote: post #11
Eji1700 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vegas really is very well regulated. There are some extremely ugly sides to gambling, but if you're going to have it, vegas is a pretty good starting point for how to try and keep things under control. There's no casino in town that will "look the other way" for a few 20 year olds who want to gamble, because doing it once could lose that operation it's gaming license. There's no casino that's going to on purpose risk…

There's absolutely no reason for a casino to cheat - they don't need to, they already have the house edge.

Tell that to Donald Trump who managed the almost impossible feat to run a casino into the ground, and that not just once, but multiple times [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Entertainment_Resorts

Re: The casino in your pocket

#119

Post by maleldil »

WA wrote: post #58
AtlasBarfed wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

gamification? No, this is illegal use of casino algorithms and payoff psychology / slot machine psychology, outside of regulation, restriction from exposure to children, without disclaimers for gambling problems and hotlines. The middle-tier issues I have: the same issues that used to exist with gambling and introducing it officially: moral concerns over degeneracy, the family impacts of gambling addictions, the regr…

> Why Europe has not woken up to this, which is the only real hope in the short run for substantial fines, is beyond me. Thing is, regulations do exist but as long as Apple and Google are not forced to comply at least partially in these regulations, nothing will ever change. Take the GDPR as an example: - Europe says: "Your app must comply with the GDPR if you want to be in the European market." - Apple says to app d…

> GDPR for app devs from [...] Brazil

It might be worth noting that Brazil has a law similar to GDPR: Lei Geral de Proteção de Dados (LGPD). It's not as strong as GDPR, though.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#120

Post by dspillett »

ehnto wrote: post #32

It has been fascinating and demoralizing to watch monetization roll out. To younger generations like my brother, they don't know any different, it's just part if gaming for them. But at least something like aesthetic loot crates are a sideshow to the actual game. Some games are good at keeping the separate and you can understand that it's just how they choose to fund the game. When the whole game is just a loot crate…

> It has been fascinating and demoralizing to watch monetization roll out. To younger generations like my brother, they don't know any different, it's just part if gaming for them.

A step worse too: they are being trained that being bombarded with adverts is acceptable. Genuinely heard (couldn't avoid hearing, the voices were fairly loud) on a train the other week a dad explaining to his charge how he should “watch the adverts all the way through because he'd get an extra coin to spend in the game” and that if he went to a particular screen he could find more adverts to watch. No idea what game it was he was playing.

Pay-to-win is winning, and people are encouraging kids to pay by opening themselves to a little light brainwashing.

[Not a parent myself, intending to never be, before anyone weights in with “you don't know how hard it can be to keep a child entertained”: I know full well, and it is one of the many reasons I'm planning to stay childless, my position on this is an informed one!]

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