New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law • Hacker News Board

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#191

Post by altdataseller » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 4:50 PM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #93

While I favor transparency, I don't think this is something that should be legislated / regulated. Mainly because the lack of such details in a job ad is a signal. And imho an important one. It gives insight into the org that's hiring. It also leaves the door open to negotiations. Employment is nearly all cases is at will. Every interview stage ends with "Any questions?" There is definitely a time and place for gover…

I disagree. Almost no job postings in NY had a salary in 2020. That number is now close to 100%. Companies will not disclose salaries unless you whack them with a stick

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#192

Post by altdataseller » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 4:51 PM UTC

throwaway2203 wrote: post #166

habosa wrote: post #154

There's a lot of skepticism in this thread but I will just say that the other laws like this have had a huge positive effect on tech job searching in my opinion. Looking casually at jobs lately I would say that 80% of them have posted salary ranges. This has been enormously helpful in a) helping me avoid jobs with inflated titles but low pay and b) attracting me to jobs I might not otherwise consider because of very…

Sometimes, sure, but more often than not, I see salary range: 80k-180k depending on experience. Not very useful, that.

I've done research into comparing concrete offers vs. the salary ranges specified in their job postings: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SfaV1p_jbgoTOyCsD5wd.... More often than not, the offer is very very close to the midpoint of the salary range. Most employers are thinking similarly: They have a wide range, but expect to pay somewhere in the middle for most candidates.

So the data says it is useful

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#193

Post by altdataseller » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 4:54 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #168

habosa wrote: post #154

There's a lot of skepticism in this thread but I will just say that the other laws like this have had a huge positive effect on tech job searching in my opinion. Looking casually at jobs lately I would say that 80% of them have posted salary ranges. This has been enormously helpful in a) helping me avoid jobs with inflated titles but low pay and b) attracting me to jobs I might not otherwise consider because of very…

A recent hiring posting here from a YCombinator backed company had salary ranges of $10,000-$1,000,000. Extremely helpful. /s

Why are you looking at the outliers? So by your logic, if a few companies have useless ranges, it makes the whole thing useless?

How about job postings with relatively decent ranges like this backend engineer role in OpenAI: https://openai.com/careers/backend-engineer-evals-understand... with a range of $245,000 – $310,000?

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#194

Post by sdfghswe » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:00 PM UTC

lesuorac wrote: post #186

sdfghswe wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok so the rationale for such laws is to help employees get paid more?

I'm not sure it should be phrased that way. The rationale for such laws is to ensure an efficient allocation of labor. An expected side-effect of efficient allocation is higher wages as employees take the best paying job they're suited for but it's not like the point of the law is to make McDonalds pay 25$/h for a fryer. > [1] The legislation underscores New York's commitment to addressing wage disparities and promot…

Ok thanks for this.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#195

Post by the_gipsy » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:19 PM UTC

jabradoodle wrote: post #142

the_gipsy wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR is already enforced on American companies serving EU citizens. Only if the American company never intends to do business in the EU can they get away with breaching it.

Apart from just about every cookie banner in existence which is in breach of gdpr and as of yet basically no consequence.

Yes, however companies are actively being fined for those. It's just that there is a huge amount of websites and not enough resources to prosecute them all at once.

https://www.enforcementtracker.com/

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#196

Post by logicalmonster » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:20 PM UTC

altdataseller wrote: post #189

logicalmonster wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a vast improvement over the current situation. Personally speaking, this only seems to be a very marginal improvement over the current situation if you consider the impact of legislation in a vacuum and magically wish away any possible unintended consequences. Does your analysis consider that at least some employers will not want to deal with employees affected by this? You might wish that this wasn't a thing, but…

That's not going to happen. California and now NY all require salary transparency. What's going to happen is the opposite. More and more states that don't have these laws, especially neighboring ones (like NJ, Connecticut) are going to disclose their salaries because they're competing with companies from those states that are being transparent, and attracting more candidates because of that transparency. They're all…

1) You're guessing about what's going to happen in the future like it's a complete given that only good things would result from this and enough other states would join in. I would point out that (this doesn't involve speculation) we already know that some companies don't want to compete in locations that have these policies, which isn't ideal for New Yorkers.

2) Your positive speculation might be a little more reasonable were we entering great economic times where companies were rushing to hire anywhere they can. In troubled economic times, companies have a lot more leverage to seek the best deals they can and can exclude locations that are more trouble than they're worth.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#197

Post by jabradoodle » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:46 PM UTC

the_gipsy wrote: post #195

jabradoodle wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from just about every cookie banner in existence which is in breach of gdpr and as of yet basically no consequence.

Yes, however companies are actively being fined for those. It's just that there is a huge amount of websites and not enough resources to prosecute them all at once. https://www.enforcementtracker.com/

Hopefully, haven't seen a difference as and end user.

Do you know which of those fines are due to non compliant cookie banners? Had a quick look but I'm not well up enough on GDPR to figure out which fines are for violating which parts of GDPR.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#198

Post by altdataseller » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:49 PM UTC

logicalmonster wrote: post #196

altdataseller wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not going to happen. California and now NY all require salary transparency. What's going to happen is the opposite. More and more states that don't have these laws, especially neighboring ones (like NJ, Connecticut) are going to disclose their salaries because they're competing with companies from those states that are being transparent, and attracting more candidates because of that transparency. They're all…

1) You're guessing about what's going to happen in the future like it's a complete given that only good things would result from this and enough other states would join in. I would point out that (this doesn't involve speculation) we already know that some companies don't want to compete in locations that have these policies, which isn't ideal for New Yorkers. 2) Your positive speculation might be a little more reaso…

1) That was true when it was just pitiful Colorado (no offense to Colorado residents)

2) That might be true for some companies that need mediocre talent, but if you’re looking to hire the best, and don’t got a salary disclosed, those elite workers have plenty of other options

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#199

Post by HumblyTossed » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:02 PM UTC

altdataseller wrote: post #188

HumblyTossed wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Health insurance is something I expect to be there, regardless of the monetary value. I hear what you're saying, but man, I really wish employers would be banned from offering healthcare benefits. They have zero business offering healthcare benefits.

Why? Isn't someone paying 70%+ and me paying 30% of my healthcare premiums better than me paying 100%?

Because we'll never get healthcare reform as long as corporations have their hands in it. It is yet another way for them to have more control over us than they should.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#200

Post by sarchertech » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #118

sarchertech wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re making 3x what other people at your level are making, you’re at the wrong level. Unless you’re already at the highest level. If you’re worth that much more, I’m surprised that you don’t push for a higher level. The point of levels is to provide an external signal of competence. And perhaps this law will push companies towards doing a better job of that. In nearly 20 years of experience pay doesn’t generally…

Or "levels" are a low-granularity schema that can't box in how people actually work in their jobs. The reality is that every person working in a position brings different things to the table. While larger businesses create defined level boxes and paths, they're really very rough and imprecise ways to describe people and often do a disservice to people who work hard but not in the way that the boxes "expect." So there…

Sure they are low granularity. But one person making 3x what another of the same level does goes way behind a rough and imprecise description. That’s a complete breakdown of a level system.