Also, what happens if both parties agree to a salary outside of the bound during the interview. Is the employer bound by that number? I am guessing there is no mechanism that would enforce it.
New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law
161–170 of 228 posts
Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law
#162I wonder if this will result in remote job applications excluding candidates from New York, as we've seen with other states. Although once a critical mass of states start requiring this, that won't really be an option any more.
If it does, good. Those are companies you probably don't want to work for. In California, we also have a minimum pay here for exempt software engineers - it's $112,065.20, which is higher than the US median salary for software developers. My company applies that same standard nationwide with remote engineers, so kind of the opposite of what you're saying.
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Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law
#163I have never worked in a job where you can give a reasonable pay band and routinely made 1.5-3x what other people with the same title did, before bonuses. This really only works for well-defined jobs in production, retail, and seems to bring little utility for the HN crowd.
If you’re making 3x what other people at your level are making, you’re at the wrong level. Unless you’re already at the highest level. If you’re worth that much more, I’m surprised that you don’t push for a higher level. The point of levels is to provide an external signal of competence. And perhaps this law will push companies towards doing a better job of that. In nearly 20 years of experience pay doesn’t generally…
Why would you push for more responsibility? If I could get paid like a technical leader but without the extra stress then what’s wrong with that?
Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
Now define “same”, particularly for creative work where value created can be a factor of 10 or more off. There are qualified, employed SWEs that I’m 3x as good as. There are other SWEs who (correctly) look at me and draw that exact same conclusion.
Because you are able to confidently measure yourself as 3x as good as somebody else, and because you're able to confidently measure value created to be a factor of 10 or more higher, you're able to measure what's needed to define "same." (Hint: it's those things, but at 1x.)
I'm flattered that you think there are no SWEs who are capable of creating 3x as much value per year as I am. I think you're incorrect, but I'm flattered.
Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law
#165My megacorp operates in at least 3 states with these laws now, so all our postings include a pay band. The band is lower than practically every person's offer...
I have been curious about that. It has a strong anchoring effect I would think. Oh I got the top of the stated band!
Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law
#166There's a lot of skepticism in this thread but I will just say that the other laws like this have had a huge positive effect on tech job searching in my opinion. Looking casually at jobs lately I would say that 80% of them have posted salary ranges. This has been enormously helpful in a) helping me avoid jobs with inflated titles but low pay and b) attracting me to jobs I might not otherwise consider because of very…
Sometimes, sure, but more often than not, I see salary range: 80k-180k depending on experience.
Not very useful, that.
Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
IMO a much better idea that circumvents all these problems is requiring companies to disclose how much they're already paying their employees, the Scandinavian way. This wouldn't even necessarily need to be broken down by individual employees, per position would work too, with statistics like number of employees covered, min, max, average and median.
Sounds great. Why don't you start. How much do you make?
I know many people in this database, including myself. I'm not sure what the big deal is.
Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law
#168There's a lot of skepticism in this thread but I will just say that the other laws like this have had a huge positive effect on tech job searching in my opinion. Looking casually at jobs lately I would say that 80% of them have posted salary ranges. This has been enormously helpful in a) helping me avoid jobs with inflated titles but low pay and b) attracting me to jobs I might not otherwise consider because of very…
A recent hiring posting here from a YCombinator backed company had salary ranges of $10,000-$1,000,000.
Extremely helpful. /s
Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law
#169I have 2 main critiques of this legislation. 1) This seems like a fairly decent bit of legislation for some standardized professions, particularly those that are often paid hourly, work in person and cannot be outsourced out of state, and in many cases are the most economically vulnerable. I'm thinking that it would be pretty decent for dishwashers, cashiers, gas station attendants, etc to know if a job is offering s…
I don't agree with your second point, but lets say you are right: the benefits of having a "salary ceiling" to me still outweigh any down-sides. I would argue that in many roles it gives a betters sense of what is on the table and allows folks to aim for higher than they might have. No legislation is perfect, but this a vast improvement over the current situation.
> a vast improvement over the current situation.
Personally speaking, this only seems to be a very marginal improvement over the current situation if you consider the impact of legislation in a vacuum and magically wish away any possible unintended consequences.
Does your analysis consider that at least some employers will not want to deal with employees affected by this? You might wish that this wasn't a thing, but it is.
Maybe this legislation isn't as questionable in good economic times where companies are rapidly hiring as many people as they can wherever they can, but it seems particularly self-destructive in a market where employers have the leverage to look anywhere.
What are you going to tell those increasingly desperate New Yorkers who start getting sad feedback like the following? "Thank you for your application to our company. Unfortunately, this role is not currently eligible for New York State residents. Have a nice day."
Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law
#170For a European person, I wonder if our fellow Americans would bother helping understand the rationale of such laws...?
Our labor market is completely different. There is no loyalty between employee and employer anymore, so job switching is far more frequent here. The hiring culture is similarly bonkers: you have to apply to dozens or hundreds of jobs to get a callback, even when unemployment is low and employers are whining to anyone who will listen that it's hard to find workers, even for low-wage restaurant and retail positions. Employers take a long time (days, weeks, months) to get back to you, they interview you multiple times, and they ghost you entirely at every stage of the process.
Imagine going through this, just to be told "You're hired, and the wage is $x/hour", where x is far less than you make now or would need to pay rent.
Salary transparency laws are necessary because workers, especially lower-wage workers, have finite time and cannot go through this process and receive multiple offers. Employers can hold out for desperate workers, but workers need to eat and pay rent, and are thus forced to take what they can get. In this hiring culture, lower-wages workers are often forced to work for far less than they could otherwise get because of the high time and effort cost of finding better paying work.