The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression • Hacker News Board

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#481

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:22 PM UTC

BytesAndGears wrote: post #454

ryandrake wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What specific government policy is causing developers to only build $2k+/mo rentals? You can't just vaguely say "government" is at fault without connecting the dots. This seems more like the market's fault. If homes in a particular area are going for $2k/mo, then that's what they are going for. If this is the government's fault, are you proposing price controls?

You can’t built a “$2k rental”. You can only build a rental that someone will pay for. Landlords are building luxury housing because it’s the only thing that’s profitable right now due to the immensely ridiculous laws that don’t help people. But if an apartment building popped up in downtown SF charging $800/mo, it’s not like only the low income people would live there. Many people living in $3000/mo apartments also…

A non-trivial amount of "property" is speculation at best and concrete money laundering at worst, especially in the largest cities

It's not supposed to saleable or rentable. But it does take up land that could be used for real housing. And it also drives up the perceived value - and price - of both rentals and outright buys.

Rent control may or may not be a solution. But many of these schemes are run through shady shell companies, and aggressive enforcement of financial reporting and taxation would go some way to fixing the problem.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#482

Post by dmn322 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:22 PM UTC

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

Every major religion says to take care of the poor. Maybe there's a deep sociological reason for it.

> they've checked out from the system

Everyone checks out of participation in a group that does nothing to benefit them. Rich people complain about taxes taking "their" money, but the system is taking something much more precious from the poor. It's taking their time and their ability to experience the things that make life worthwhile --- time with friends and family, time in nature. You can say all you want that people need to work for it, but they also need to enjoy the fruits of their labor, and that's not happening.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#483

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:23 PM UTC

test6554 wrote: post #359

oooyay wrote: post #100

I moved to Portland a year ago. We certainly have a lot of homeless people, many of which are people caught up in the substance abuse cycle with particular drugs. However, one day I was driving back to East Portland, I drove under an underpass that's a particularly rough place. I saw a woman that looked to be my mom's age with what appeared to be a modern suit case, she was well dressed, and sober looking. The blood…

I don't know why we don't just have a single state where all homeless people can live. Where homeless people from all over can be bussed into. Where all homelessness resources can be directed. Where a majority of caseworkers can go, where lots and lots of housing can be built and no NIMBYs can complain. A state that is already basically this kind of place. Like West Virginia.

[deleted]

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#484

Post by wwweston » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:23 PM UTC

BytesAndGears wrote: post #454

ryandrake wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What specific government policy is causing developers to only build $2k+/mo rentals? You can't just vaguely say "government" is at fault without connecting the dots. This seems more like the market's fault. If homes in a particular area are going for $2k/mo, then that's what they are going for. If this is the government's fault, are you proposing price controls?

You can’t built a “$2k rental”. You can only build a rental that someone will pay for. Landlords are building luxury housing because it’s the only thing that’s profitable right now due to the immensely ridiculous laws that don’t help people. But if an apartment building popped up in downtown SF charging $800/mo, it’s not like only the low income people would live there. Many people living in $3000/mo apartments also…

And which developers are going to build past the point of diminishing marginal returns?

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#485

Post by yakubin » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:23 PM UTC

datavirtue wrote: post #445

spir wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only perceive corporate landlords as the greater problem because we're not living in the counterfactual reality where there are millions of new apartments that are inexpensive, tiny, safe, quiet, modern, clean, dignified, and well-located. In pretty much every major city in North America, it is illegal or there is too much red tape to build the affordable housing people actually want. Why is it that living in a t…

Saw a YouTube video about row houses being built in Texas. They start at $135k to $160k ranging from 350sq ft to 600sq ft. You have to buy. Parking for one. No street parking. The feng shui is horrible/dystopian. They are all going to sell.

> Parking for one.

Are you saying it’s too many or too few?

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#486

Post by bombcar » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:23 PM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #339

c_crank wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did anyone force all those students to take student loans?

Their parents, society, etc. I won't convince you because you've got your anecdotes. Though I'd say if a public school counselor, parents and teachers all tell a 17 year old it's "college or bust", it's laughable to argue "ah, those teenagers should have been rational, informed consumers of professional training and eschewed the advice of every trusted adult in their life".

If you change "sell yourself into loan slavery for 30 years" with "create pornography" or "drink alcohol" or "enlist for war" or "buy guns" or "any number of age restricted things" suddenly everyone is all up in arms about how the 17 year old cannot be trusted to make an informed decision.

But when it's in the service of the finance industry - bam; all gone!

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#487

Post by coryrc » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:24 PM UTC

adra wrote: post #353

J_Shelby_J wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building any housing is building affordable housing. Adding one home at the top of the price range, increases the number of affordable homes for someone, somewhere, by at least one.

Come tell that to the residents of Vancouver. We've had countless luxury condos made year after year for two decades and we're at around 3k/mo for a 1br.. tell us more about how building units that "regular" people can never afford that it's always helping them.

Your population is booming. You're not building as much as you think you are.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#488

Post by adra » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:24 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #435

spir wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only perceive corporate landlords as the greater problem because we're not living in the counterfactual reality where there are millions of new apartments that are inexpensive, tiny, safe, quiet, modern, clean, dignified, and well-located. In pretty much every major city in North America, it is illegal or there is too much red tape to build the affordable housing people actually want. Why is it that living in a t…

What counts as a major city? When you start looking in cities that are under around 400k population you start to find plenty of price points under $2k.

You're right that raw $ cost of a unit doesn't tell nearly enough information. The ideal measure is probably % of median income / sqf, or something like that. Even then, it's a very different story for singles looking for a hole to sleep in while partying up all the time vs. a family of 5 looking to have a stable home vs 4 friends looking for a cheap rental while going to school.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#489

Post by jessfyi » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:24 PM UTC

max47 wrote: post #394

horpolopolil wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they are too. If you build, blackrock, or evergrand will buy it for a lot more than most can afford. The goal being to limit stock and push the prices of their asset up.

As long as they don’t leave it empty, they are not limiting the stock. Changing the name on a piece of paper doesn’t magically creates new houses out of thin air.

Well they are leaving them vacant. Both rentals and houses across the country are sitting unfilled. NYC has anywhere from 13-26k rent controlled apartments vacant. As of last year ~16 million homes were estimated to be vacant overall and increasing interest rates have likely increased that. Why? Because these large orgs have purchased them via debt and it's just a line-item on a spreadsheet to them. Just build might work in a world where market actors were wholly rational and the government regulations actually targeted these perverse incentives, but that's not the reality we currently find ourselves in.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#490

Post by c_crank » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:25 PM UTC

ebiester wrote: post #480

c_crank wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, I can name plenty of people near me who hold full time jobs without needing a four year degree.

Certainly. I see them around here too. They make 12-15 dollars an hour. That's 2400 dollars a month. That means at 30% of income (rental maximum in most areas), they can afford $720. (This assumes that they can work 40 hours. Their hours are often variable because they need two jobs - places mostly hire part time to avoid needing to give out health care.) There are only a handful of apartments in the area that will r…

The people I know making lower wages typically rent or live in places with not such a high expense. Their apartments are not as upscale as others are, but they are certainly livable.