The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression • Hacker News Board

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#261

Post by skeeter2020 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 2:00 PM UTC

spir wrote: post #234

escapedmoose wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among my friends seeking to buy houses, the greater problem is the ability of large companies to buy up whatever is on the market, which they then immediately turn into a rental. It’s nearly impossible to compete with a company who will pay $50k over asking price, in cash, for the house you’re trying to get. Comparatively, immigrants don’t have the purchasing power to compete, so saying they’re the problem is a weird…

You only perceive corporate landlords as the greater problem because we're not living in the counterfactual reality where there are millions of new apartments that are inexpensive, tiny, safe, quiet, modern, clean, dignified, and well-located. In pretty much every major city in North America, it is illegal or there is too much red tape to build the affordable housing people actually want. Why is it that living in a t…

Maybe? Or how about they are in no-way comparable.Unless you are talking mass subsidization there is an absolute floor for providing housing, not to mention finite capacity for both tent cities and affordable apartments.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#262

Post by alexb_ » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 2:00 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #243

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

> Part of the problem is government regulation. And not just too much regulation, but the wrong kind of regulation, and a lack of regulation in areas that need it. Someone in the article was forced out of her home because her landlord suddenly raised her rent by $500. That shouldn't be legal. Corporations buying up homes in order to drive up prices shouldn't be allowed. Lots of things are allowed that shouldn't be. A…

> Someone in the article was forced out of her home because her landlord suddenly raised her rent by $500. That shouldn't be legal.

Rent gets raised by $500 because someone else would actually pay that much. Rent control is the ultimate "I got mine" - it rewards people who got in early while making it impossible for anyone else to have housing. The reason rent could go up that much is because supply is so artificially constrained.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#263

Post by c_crank » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 2:00 PM UTC

ohyes wrote: post #257

c_crank wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did anyone force all those students to take student loans?

Yes. They literally have to or they’ve got no chance at competing in the job market. They’re screwed either way, might as well get 4 years of college out of it.

Anecdotally, I can name plenty of people near me who hold full time jobs without needing a four year degree.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#264

Post by dpeckett » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 2:01 PM UTC

hotpotamus wrote: post #221

dpeckett wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm increasingly getting worried about the stability of the current situation. We have a tremendous collapse of the construction industry (housing starts at a 50 year low, at least here in germany) and many commentators are predicting ever increasing rents. This in the face of a fertility collapse across the developed world and a rapidly aging population. Most of the youth is waking up to the idea their pensions will…

If I was a kid today, I'd be pissed about those things yes, but I'd be more pissed that we're destabilizing the global climate system. I'm not so surprised about the fertility collapse; I'm more surprised that anyone still has children at all.

Ironically enough I'm more optimistic we can mitigate the worst impacts of climate change (as it's more of an engineering and technology issue). Sure the transition will be expensive but we're making solid progress [1] and we still have a bunch of unused tools in our tool belt (geoengineering, cloud brightening, carbon capture etc).

Demographically (and by proxy politically) though things are far from improving, we are just getting started. Just look at the massive social unrest caused by European states attempting to raise pension ages. God forbid we try and unwind some of the ZIRP associated housing inflation (in a democracy where the older homeowners hold a political majority it will never happen willingly).

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvlq3oMvEm8

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#265

Post by logicchains » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 2:02 PM UTC

poorbutdebtfree wrote: post #178

epiccoleman wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, this is a take on gun control I don't think I've ever seen: "Lack of gun control is preventing the state from forcibly redistributing the wealth of middle class families." (And this is bad). NRA, eat your hearts out, I guess.

[flagged]

It was actually closer to 3/10 of the adult population.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#266

Post by robertlagrant » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 2:02 PM UTC

esarbe wrote: post #237

robertlagrant wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point at which of these shows that wealthy people weren't paid for value created please?

What make you assume that this is the case or that the data I linked to would answer that question?

> What make you assume that this is the case or that the data I linked to would answer that question?

I assumed you posted the link and said "look at the data" as it had some data with some bearing on what I was saying.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#267

Post by IKantRead » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 2:02 PM UTC

spir wrote: post #234

escapedmoose wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among my friends seeking to buy houses, the greater problem is the ability of large companies to buy up whatever is on the market, which they then immediately turn into a rental. It’s nearly impossible to compete with a company who will pay $50k over asking price, in cash, for the house you’re trying to get. Comparatively, immigrants don’t have the purchasing power to compete, so saying they’re the problem is a weird…

You only perceive corporate landlords as the greater problem because we're not living in the counterfactual reality where there are millions of new apartments that are inexpensive, tiny, safe, quiet, modern, clean, dignified, and well-located. In pretty much every major city in North America, it is illegal or there is too much red tape to build the affordable housing people actually want. Why is it that living in a t…

> not living in the counterfactual reality where there are millions of new apartments that are inexpensive, tiny, safe, quiet, modern, clean, dignified, and well-located.

China serves as this counter factual and it's facing an even larger housing crisis. Massive building of houses lead to many people buying up property for investment reasons and now there is a pretty clear oversupply while plenty of people still struggle to find housing.

I don't really understand why HN is obsessed with building unlimited housing as though this will fix the problem. For years people clamored that this was the solution to all of SFs problems, but as SF starts to shrink it already looks deserted, I can't image what happen if the HN fantasy of building unlimited massive apartment housing had materialized.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#268

Post by wyager » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 2:03 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #243

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

> Part of the problem is government regulation. And not just too much regulation, but the wrong kind of regulation, and a lack of regulation in areas that need it. Someone in the article was forced out of her home because her landlord suddenly raised her rent by $500. That shouldn't be legal. Corporations buying up homes in order to drive up prices shouldn't be allowed. Lots of things are allowed that shouldn't be. A…

> her landlord suddenly raised her rent by $500. That shouldn't be legal.

GP: "Government regulation is preventing the construction of more housing"

You: "So true. For example, we need more regulation that make housing a legally encumbered asset with uniquely constrained and inflexible financial properties"

What is your thought process here? Do you think this kind of thing will encourage the provision of more houses? Do you have a sense for how making housing an exceptionally financially risky asset will influence whether or not investors are interested in building more housing, and how they have to perform initial pricing to offset rent-fixing and regulatory risk?

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#269

Post by username_my1 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 2:05 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #236

betaby wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't seem to work in Canada.

Didn't say it's working :-/ Canada has two major problems with immigration right now: 1) the rapid increase in numbers is a shock that the immigration systems (including immigrant community resources) can't handle, that shock is exacerbating the housing crisis (and health care crisis and ...) 2) the family reunification program defeats one of the major purposes of immigration, increase the ratio of working age citize…

No way immigration doesn't help, I see this in germany help so many startups enter the market and build successful businesses that drive the economy.

The problem is that it's not a solution, the solution is to constantly push against inequility and increase social mobility while investing in productive industries (less housing speculations more manufacturing).

those are tough bills to swallow and they will lead any elected goverment out of the office, because strong shifts to an economy like this come with a lot of short term pain. and no one is willing to setdown and deal with 10 years of poor economy so that the future of the country is better.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#270

Post by rootusrootus » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 2:05 PM UTC

fnimick wrote: post #48

lm28469 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more about real estate being seen as an investment vessel than "government regulations". Most building regulations have sounds basis, they exist because without them people were building very shady and dangerous housing Also people aren't homeless because there are no "homes", it usually runs much deeper than that

Building regulations yes, zoning regulations no. There's a community near me that has enormous housing shortages and yet they maintain a 1 acre minimum lot per single family house only to "preserve character". Does that sound like a safety issue to you?

That sounds very unique, to the point of implausibility. Any community with a 1 acre minimum lot by definition doesn't have anything like an enormous housing shortage. That's rural density.