The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression • Hacker News Board

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#221

Post by hotpotamus » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:44 PM UTC

dpeckett wrote: post #191

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

I'm increasingly getting worried about the stability of the current situation. We have a tremendous collapse of the construction industry (housing starts at a 50 year low, at least here in germany) and many commentators are predicting ever increasing rents. This in the face of a fertility collapse across the developed world and a rapidly aging population. Most of the youth is waking up to the idea their pensions will…

If I was a kid today, I'd be pissed about those things yes, but I'd be more pissed that we're destabilizing the global climate system. I'm not so surprised about the fertility collapse; I'm more surprised that anyone still has children at all.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#222

Post by TjZkxkxeky » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:45 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #62

mensetmanusman wrote: post #40

There are five workers supporting every retiree, and this is still happening. If you are approaching 40, there will be about two workers supporting you when you retire. I’m thinking this is the start of something much bigger.

Yes, this is why the "it's immigration" comments are incredibly naive. Immigration is trying to prop up this system.

Is that why Japan's elderly are all homeless?

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#223

Post by flir » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:46 PM UTC

escapedmoose wrote: post #192

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

Among my friends seeking to buy houses, the greater problem is the ability of large companies to buy up whatever is on the market, which they then immediately turn into a rental. It’s nearly impossible to compete with a company who will pay $50k over asking price, in cash, for the house you’re trying to get. Comparatively, immigrants don’t have the purchasing power to compete, so saying they’re the problem is a weird…

Are rental prices falling?

If not, I suggest that the root problem is still not enough houses.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#224

Post by test6554 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:46 PM UTC

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

Remote work / flexible schedules has changed how people use their homes. Older homes are not what people want to buy these days. People want a home that they can both live and work in. One in which both partners can possibly work from home at the same time. One that makes caring for kids easier while they work from home.

They also want to have media rooms as fewer people go to theaters and more people stream movies from home. Also private pools are still a popular choice, but more so after covid made public pool use off limits.

So of course new construction is expensive now. Because new floor plans are in demand.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#225

Post by swayvil » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:46 PM UTC

Because a small group of wealthy individuals own pretty much everything and charge everybody else as much rent as possible.

That was always the plan. That's the name of the game.

I think it's called "late stage capitalism".

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#226

Post by J_Shelby_J » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:47 PM UTC

escapedmoose wrote: post #192

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

Among my friends seeking to buy houses, the greater problem is the ability of large companies to buy up whatever is on the market, which they then immediately turn into a rental. It’s nearly impossible to compete with a company who will pay $50k over asking price, in cash, for the house you’re trying to get. Comparatively, immigrants don’t have the purchasing power to compete, so saying they’re the problem is a weird…

a) Housing is only a viable investment because of a shortage. If housing supply met housing demand, housing would be a depreciating asset.

b) Investors turn around and rent/sell those houses, so they aren't actually eating into housing supply. What they are reducing the supply of is the bottom level of the rent seeking pyramid. Property ownership is simply so profitable that the average person now can't afford to buy in.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#227

Post by alephnerd » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:48 PM UTC

Grimburger wrote: post #219

alephnerd wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the sentiment but it's legally and politically untenable in the US (edit: to use eminent domain) Singapore was able to build out the HDB because it was a One Party State that didn't take kindly to activists. For example, when the HDB program was being built out, there was massive resistance by the people living in the villages used to build those HDBs. Those villagers often leaned socialist (Barisal Sosi…

This seems a somewhat dramatised account? The Malayan emergency response had the solid backing of the west and was essentially just a continuation of the cold war across the region at the time, it's definitely a lot deeper than just zoning laws and is rooted in a decades long civil war with communist insurgents. There's absolutely no reason we in the Anglosphere couldn't emulate the HDB system and bringing up cold wa…

I'm responding to OP's comment on eminent domain.

Eminent Domain in the US is a de facto nonstarter based on past recent litigation.

The HDB programs in both SG and HK were able to succeed thanks to strong eminent domain laws by governments not immediately beholden to public sentiment.

It was the right call, but one that can't be done in the US circa 2023.

Also, Coldstone was after the Malayan Emergency and after SG was kicked out of the Malaysia, though this was also the era of Konfrontasi.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#228

Post by mensetmanusman » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:48 PM UTC

TjZkxkxeky wrote: post #222

Ensorceled wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is why the "it's immigration" comments are incredibly naive. Immigration is trying to prop up this system.

Is that why Japan's elderly are all homeless?

Japan has an over-abundance of housing.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#229

Post by jeroenhd » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:48 PM UTC

hotpotamus wrote: post #196

mensetmanusman wrote: post #40

There are five workers supporting every retiree, and this is still happening. If you are approaching 40, there will be about two workers supporting you when you retire. I’m thinking this is the start of something much bigger.

Aren't we supposed to be incredibly productive compared to a century ago? "We" (not me) certainly have more megayachts and private jets traversing the Earth than we did. You'd think we could afford some housing to go around, but I'm far from naive enough to believe that we'll solve this or any problem facing us at this point.

Production has definitely increased, but wages (and therefore things like income taxes to fund welfare for the elderly) haven't scaled with the increase in production. Pages like these (https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/) have a whole bunch of numbers and graphs detailing the difference.

Increasing productivity doesn't fix the loss of workers per retiree if the profits of that productivity only flow to the top. This can be fixed, but I don't expect a massive increase in wages at the cost of shareholder returns happening any time soon. I think it's more likely that those who haven't saved and invested enough to compensate for the shifting economic landscape (or those who made bad investments) will just end up with a lower standard of living than the previous generations of retirees.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#230

Post by TjZkxkxeky » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:49 PM UTC

badcppdev wrote: post #185

badcppdev wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fairly important fact rather than just a nit.

Replying to myself. The article is also kind of incorrect when it says boomers are 57 to 75 as the youngest boomers are going to be 59 I think (1946-64)

I think the reason marketing and journalists use "boomers" is that they can then spend a paragraph explaining what a boomer is. Born in the 40s, born in the 50s, born in the 60s, born in the 70s would have saves us so much ink for the last 80 years, but I think _not_ saving ink was rather the point.