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New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

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Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#131

Post by fnimick »

mschuster91 wrote: post #36
blfr wrote: post #3

I have never worked in a job where you can give a reasonable pay band and routinely made 1.5-3x what other people with the same title did, before bonuses. This really only works for well-defined jobs in production, retail, and seems to bring little utility for the HN crowd.

The same work should bring the same payment, period. Everything else just ends up rewarding those with the best "negotiation" skill which is completely unrelated to one's actually work-relevant skills.

Or worse, it rewards those that are "in demand" elsewhere, and harms those that due to some factors outside of their control (sexism, racism) would receive less interest elsewhere, so they can be paid less to keep them here.

I once spoke with someone who acknowledged this, but said it wasn't a bad thing - if the market has decided that someone is worth less, why should he pay them more than he has to?

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#132

Post by fourseventy »

miki123211 wrote: post #23
elromulous wrote: post #2

I've previously commented [0] on how broken this implementation is. It's frustrating politicians don't see how easy it is to circumvent what the law seeks to achieve. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37440358

IMO a much better idea that circumvents all these problems is requiring companies to disclose how much they're already paying their employees, the Scandinavian way. This wouldn't even necessarily need to be broken down by individual employees, per position would work too, with statistics like number of employees covered, min, max, average and median.

Sounds great. Why don't you start. How much do you make?

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#133

Post by [deleted] »

viraptor wrote: post #47
blfr wrote: post #3

I have never worked in a job where you can give a reasonable pay band and routinely made 1.5-3x what other people with the same title did, before bonuses. This really only works for well-defined jobs in production, retail, and seems to bring little utility for the HN crowd.

That may be also a sign of poorly defined levels. If you're calling people the same i.e. set the same expectations, but pay them 3x different amount, something's weird with the org.

[deleted]

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#134

Post by lotsofpulp »

prepend wrote: post #27

I think it’s better than nothing, but ultimately not helpful for job seekers working to learn how much a position will pay them. I work in a very regulated organization where all pay rates are published with postings. [0] But the ranges are $20-40k for each grade and it’s hard to tell what you will end up being offered and accepted. I think it helps prevent some mismatches of people confusing $20k and $200k positions…

> So what do I do with a job posting that says $110-250k? If Im senior, do I apply and expect $250k not knowing if there’s a single person who is amazing making they amount? Or if Im junior do I ask for $110, knowing I could get more.

You apply with the knowledge that you will earn at least $110k, and if you want more, you should apply to more employers so that you have the negotiating position to ask for more.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#135

Post by [deleted] »

jstanley wrote: post #81
prepend wrote: post #27

I think it’s better than nothing, but ultimately not helpful for job seekers working to learn how much a position will pay them. I work in a very regulated organization where all pay rates are published with postings. [0] But the ranges are $20-40k for each grade and it’s hard to tell what you will end up being offered and accepted. I think it helps prevent some mismatches of people confusing $20k and $200k positions…

> I frequently see people with work history in the $30/hour range applying for very high pay jobs. Does a low-paying job in the past disqualify you from high-paying jobs in the future?

[deleted]

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#136

Post by lotsofpulp »

doublespanner wrote: post #124
pc86 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the largest range I've seen that wasn't very obviously from some resume harvester or z-tier recruiting firm was $30-40k between the lowest and highest, and it didn't seem to grow all that much as the upper band number increased (e.g. I distinctly remember one that said $180-200k). These $50-500k ranges simply don't happen in reality.

I've seen plenty that go $100-350k, especially when it looks like a company is hiring a few people... Useless to a candidate, but not dodgy or malicious.

Not useless to a candidate, since they know they will earn at least $100k. This is a very useful signal to the labor market as a whole.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#137

Post by pnutjam »

nfriedly wrote: post #121
throw1234651234 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, it mostly does. Everyone tries to funnel you into +5-15% positions and may relent to +15%-30% when you reject their offer (two times and they still decide they need you).

I generally just don't say what my current role pays when interviewing. I ask what pay range they're targeting, and if they need a number from me, I'll offer a range where the low end is what I'd actually like.

Myself as well, but that information is out there and easily found through payroll subscription services.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#138

Post by jabradoodle »

michaelt wrote: post #127
viraptor wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be also a sign of poorly defined levels. If you're calling people the same i.e. set the same expectations, but pay them 3x different amount, something's weird with the org.

Maybe, maybe not. I mean, titles don't really mean anything to developers. It's not like in the army where everyone knows the difference between a colonel and a general. You could run an organisation where everyone from a new graduate right up to Linus Torvalds has the same title, just a different level of pay.

You could, but you would implicitly give them titles and have different expectations.

No one is expecting a junior to define the technical roadmap for the next 6 months and coordinate it's implementation across 5 teams* and be the final judge on disagreements.

Edit: typo

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#139

Post by ta8645 »

KoftaBob wrote: post #77
ta8645 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems unlikely, since they do not have legal jurisdiction over say a company in Belgium who is advertising worldwide for employees.

They do if the job is listed as being based in NY, which is what this law pertains to.

That makes sense. So it's okay for companies to advertise to NY citizens, for jobs in other states, without complying with this rule.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#140

Post by pxx »

carlob wrote: post #128
Spooky23 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re HR people - a log is a thing that used to be a tree.

Is the midpoint between 20k and 80k 40k or 60k? Is the midpoint between 10k and 1M 100k or 505k? I think intuitively when the span is large we easily reason in logarithms even with little math training.

But the (geometric) midpoint between 100k and 1MM is $316,227 which might be surprising to some.
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