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LARPing and Violent Extremism

leb.fbi.gov

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Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#81

Post by pests »

Karellen wrote: post #67
pests wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had to guess I would saynpart of the intrusive-thoughts/OCD/impulse-control community. I've seen similar about swerving into oncoming traffic or walking off a ledge.

Intrisive thoughts are fairly common, and not related to a specific community or exclusive to any identifiable subgroup: > These thoughts are part of being human, and need not ruin the quality of life. Treatment is available when the thoughts are associated with OCD and become persistent, severe, or distressing. > One example of an aggressive intrusive thought is the high place phenomenon, the sudden urge to jump fro…

I specifically mean the TikTok self-proclaimed community. Search #intrusivethoughts or find some videos and I'm sure the algo will start showing you more.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#82

Post by ethbr1 »

akira2501 wrote: post #77
ethbr1 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blatant lying that law enforcement has to deal with on a daily basis is uderappreciated. The US has a legal system that permits a defendant to say many things, like "My buddies and I were participating in a fantasy scenario where we plotted in detail and collected supplies to kidnap the governor of our state... but it was just a game. Like those other people who play games!" Good for the authors in making an effo…

Which is why our founders had the good sense to bake jury trials right into the constitution. The focus on law enforcement, who in this particular case, were themselves involved in the "LARPing" to large extent, is bizarre. The purpose of the criminal justice system isn't to punish every single unruly act. It's to match punishments with the actual crimes committed. It's bizarre to see Hacker News blindly cheering on…

I'm cheering it on because I remember the Secret Service's ignorant CFAA fumbling in the 90s.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#83

Post by kens »

flangola7 wrote: post #38
082349872349872 wrote: post #3

Cosplaytriots attempting to use LARPing as an excuse is reminiscent of: > "Never believe that [they] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. ... They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persua…

Once you realize many individuals see written language not as a means to share ideas and have mutual constructive discussion, but as just another weapon to achieve their ends, a lot of human interactions (especially online) make a lot more sense. It's very dangerous since many of us (myself included) instinctively assume good faith and approach conflicts as possible misunderstandings or opportunities for constructive…

That reminds me of Scalzi's interesting post "The Gamification of Rhetoric". He describes how many people are not interested in issues or discussion, but are just trying to win with a sequence of stock arguments. He refers to this as slapping down cards from a "Debate: The Gathering" stack.

https://whatever.scalzi.com/2018/08/03/the-gamification-of-r...

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#85

Post by screwturner68 »

Karunamon wrote: post #65
ethbr1 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking at this from an assumption-of-LARPing. Imagine an FBI agent looking at evidence of Timothy McVeigh at a gun show in 1994. He's selling a flare gun he claims can 'shoot down an ATF helicopter' and ATF hats with bullet holes in them. When interviewed without charge, imagine McVeigh claims that it's part of his LARPing activities. What standards would you suggest that agent applies, in order to avoid a fa…

Another way to phrase that first sentence is "assumption of innocence". And while random commentators on the internet are not obligated to honor it, law enforcement is supposed to.

Really? I don't think due process and law enforcement have anything to do with one another. Law enforcement arrests people on made up laws all the time just because they are doing something the law enforcement officer doesn't like, there is no consideration of presumption of innocence. Law enforcement's job is to enforce "the law" as they interpenetrate it -unlike civilians where "ignorance of the law is not an excuse" in law enforcement they certainly an go with ignorance of the law as long as the judge thinks it's "reasonable". Let's not forget the police have been embedding themselves in peaceful protest groups for the last 100 years.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#86

Post by ethbr1 »

Jensson wrote: post #73
ethbr1 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking at this from an assumption-of-LARPing. Imagine an FBI agent looking at evidence of Timothy McVeigh at a gun show in 1994. He's selling a flare gun he claims can 'shoot down an ATF helicopter' and ATF hats with bullet holes in them. When interviewed without charge, imagine McVeigh claims that it's part of his LARPing activities. What standards would you suggest that agent applies, in order to avoid a fa…

Your example just proves that this document doesn't hold water, he did that in public and didn't care about people seeing what he did, so the document would suggest he was LARPing for real. I don't see how this document would help find criminals and help free innocents. It seems to give way too rigid guidelines that will be misused by many officers.

He wasn't practicing building pipe bombs in public.

By the rubric this document suggests, McVeigh would have satisfied 0 / 10 LARPing signals in Table 1.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#87

Post by text0404 »

Jensson wrote: post #75
georgeecollins wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the top post that the title confused me. But reading the article I came away with a very different take than you. This person is trying to define the difference between LARPing and being terrorist. That may be obvious to someone who knows LARPers, but not everyone does. I really don't think that the police are going to be a problem for people in fantasy gear, cosplaying, or re-enacting a historical battl…

> I really don't think that the police are going to be a problem for people in fantasy gear, cosplaying, or re-enacting a historical battle. I have never heard of it. But now with these guidelines police has a reason to go after them. Something like: "I just followed these guidelines, it says you are showing terrorist signs and aren't real LARPers". They didn't do that before, but guidelines like these changes behavi…

What motivation do they have to do this? Are you talking about, like, Civil War re-enactors? Pretty sure the police aren't going to roll up on some dudes in wigs and toy bayonets in a park. Those people usually get permits for that kind of thing anyways.

If you're part of a group with a manifesto, ordering weapons and explosives and doing practice drills to take down the US government, then yeah... it's highly likely that the feds are going to pay attention.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#88

Post by Jensson »

ethbr1 wrote: post #86
Jensson wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your example just proves that this document doesn't hold water, he did that in public and didn't care about people seeing what he did, so the document would suggest he was LARPing for real. I don't see how this document would help find criminals and help free innocents. It seems to give way too rigid guidelines that will be misused by many officers.

He wasn't practicing building pipe bombs in public. By the rubric this document suggests, McVeigh would have satisfied 0 / 10 LARPing signals in Table 1.

Your scenario was:

> Imagine an FBI agent looking at evidence of Timothy McVeigh at a gun show in 1994. He's selling a flare gun he claims can 'shoot down an ATF helicopter' and ATF hats with bullet holes in them.

Not "Imagine an FBI agent looking at Timothy McVeigh building pipe bombs in private". I don't see how this document would have helped stop McVeigh.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#89

Post by hock_ads_ad_hoc »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #70

Although the history of LARP as a legal defense is narrow, the authors share the concern that it may soon become commonplace. This is a reasonable concern. I will note anecdotally not all role players are playing with a full deck -- though I am more familiar with role playing gamers, not LARPers (granted: not entirely separate groups). Some are mildly cracked, sometimes harmlessly -- the guy who exclusively played fe…

I thought there was a “has difficulty differentiating LARP persona from real identity” criteria on the list. Seems like that should come into play in the situation you described.
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