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Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

jenson.org

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Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#311

Post by twobitshifter »

So I read this article with my iPad and of course that made me immediately start exploring the text selection within the article - it appears that it has changed in iOS 17 Safari and applies several ideas from the article.

* Immediately start dragging. When you pause it immediately enters text selection. If you move slowly you get the loupe otherwise it starts jumping word by word in the text

* When you release you get the popup options to do something with your text

* Holding the end of the selection and moving slowly gives you fine control over the cursor.

* When editing this comment, it doesn’t immediately jump to selection but gives you cursor control right away after long press with the magnified loupe. Move fast enough and the magnifier disappears. This is different behavior from long pressing the space bar.

* Double tap and drag gives you the selection behavior.

* Double tap and no drag selects the word.

Actual coding on a touchscreen is still impossible even with the articles improvements. I’d like to see more work on that. I wonder if speaking to our devices inaudibly could be the long term way forward.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#312

Post by eviks »

Nice effort to fix the broken fundamentals, though this doesn't go far enough.

Why no customizable menu buttons? Good note editing apps like Bear on iOS have them, and predictable position makes choice faster/more precise vs a near-cursor popup

A selection undo stack (and action undo tree stack) would also help in fixing mistapping and other mistakes

And maybe modal editing paradigm could also be a good source of learning?

Also fully customizable keyboards would help in text editing

(don't like their proposed animation , seems like distracting noise, though maybe in actual use it's not bad)

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#313

Post by reedciccio »

mid-kid wrote: post #237
DebtDeflation wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprised it didn't mention the lack of a "Delete" key (at least in the standard Android keyboard). All that is provided is Backspace. On the desktop, I use Delete and Backspace equally, depending on where my cursor happens to be.

Can't speak for everyone but it took me a decade of computer usage to even "fit" the delete key in my text editing workflow and getting used to reaching for it. I still don't use it much, and it doesn't help that it's hard to reach on laptops and not simply shift+backspace. I think of the delete key as a power-user feature.

You may have grown up with a Mac if you think the delete key is a key for a power user :)

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#315

Post by gcanyon »

teddyh wrote: post #244
gcanyon wrote: post #97

The problem is far from invisible (to me at least). A few months ago on HN I used text editing as an example of how iOS wasn't ready for "business" use. I can't find the comment now, but my memory is that I listed several of the issues listed in this post and said something like "Text creation/editing is core to the 'business', non-content-consumer use case. Apple needs to either acknowledge these problems and work t…

> A few months ago on HN I used text editing as an example of how iOS wasn't ready for "business" use. I can't find the comment now Was it this one? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36536203 >

Yes! -- I'm curious if you had some efficient way to find that?

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#316

Post by mhb »

superkuh wrote: post #49

Nothing on mobile is okay. I know everyone loves their smart phones but they really are terrible computers in every way except for portability. Use a computer when you actually want to do things. Smartphones are just for when you're literally unable to use a real computer.

My saw is a bad hammer.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#317

Post by gcanyon »

laurentlb wrote: post #272
gcanyon wrote: post #97

The problem is far from invisible (to me at least). A few months ago on HN I used text editing as an example of how iOS wasn't ready for "business" use. I can't find the comment now, but my memory is that I listed several of the issues listed in this post and said something like "Text creation/editing is core to the 'business', non-content-consumer use case. Apple needs to either acknowledge these problems and work t…

> Google obviously uses gmail, and just as clearly never used any of the social products they released Employees use for example Gmail and Google Docs, and it's critical to their productivity. It can be hard to get the same feedback loop for other products. Some Google employees used Google+, but not that many, and they didn't need the same features as external users. And even if they complained internally about some…

Yep, docs is another example where it's clear google uses it internally.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#318

Post by dan-robertson »

davidmurdoch wrote: post #65
justsomehnguy wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no undo It works fine, you just need a keyboard what would allow you to send Ctrl+Z. Yes, there should be a menu item (at least in a pop-up) too... BTW, there is a API to add your things to that pop-up (like for searching providers etc) so there is a chance you can make it.

iOS has "shake to undo", which isn't perfect, but at least it's something.

You can also do settings->accessibility->touch->back tap and set a single/double tap to send the ‘shake’ gesture.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#319

Post by tomjen3 »

mrob wrote: post #95
tomjen3 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are much, much better for photos. I will even say they are better for most videos chats. They are better music players. They are better GPS nav systems.

They are better for taking photographs simply because they're smaller, but for every other aspect of photo viewing, management, and editing, they are worse. They have a tiny screen, insufficient local storage and compute, and no keyboard or mouse. They're not better music players. Sound quality can be identical because phones support USB DACs, but again, everything else is worse. On a real computer I can easily searc…

I think they are also great for photo viewing, because they are easy to show to others. As the saying goes the best camera you have is the one you have with you.

Same reason I listed them as the best music players - I don't want to carry around a laptop to hear tunes. And while some audiphiles claim that they can hear a difference, I have never seen evidence that this is the case.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#320

Post by nobodyandproud »

happymellon wrote: post #263
JamesLeonis wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s just not your typical consumer. My only disagreement. I think many people don't know they want something better because they've never used something better. The video in the link describes how the users do short texts to get around the problem [0], including deleting whole blocks of text instead of editing. Teenagers, parents, and many others communicate heavily through texts and are often "up and down" like m…

I miss my Blackberry for typing. The tactile feedback of real keys was so much better than haptic screens.

Sounds like a small, niche but very real market and product: A keyboard case with Bluetooth (but security!) or USB-C.

Bonus points for e-ink-based keys.

Edit: Realistically I’d be surprised if something like this doesn’t already exist.

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