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Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

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Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#231

Post by myk9001 »

superkuh wrote: post #185
crazygringo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Smartphones are just for when you're literally unable to use a real computer. Which is literally extremely frequent, since we often need to do stuff on the go. Which is why an article like this is so important -- we should improve, not give up. There's no reason to think text editing on a phone has reached its final form.

The reason I think it won't get much better is that the size of smart phones will not change. It is size that's really the issue for text editing. No space for a real keyboard, no space for a real display.

Maybe we can look at it as an opportunity for inventing a fundamentally different approach to text editing on mobile?

In another topic on HN people are discussing how software gets more bloated over time, because throwing more powerful hardware at a problem is easier than optimizing the software.

As mobile devices aren't likely to get much bigger or get equipped with a mouse and keyboard anytime soon -- in other words, we don't seem to have a hw solution -- isn't it the perfect moment to try something novel and different?

Sure, it isn't a given someone will come up with a great, new approach soon enough. Still seems worth it looking at this as an opportunity.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#232

Post by ghaff »

ako wrote: post #206
kibwen wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> before you say “sounds like you just want a tablet” One of my friends uses a GPD Pocket 3, which is an 8-inch computer that's small enough to fit in your pocket, with a full keyboard, touchpad, and touchscreen that swivels to become a tablet. It's pretty nifty. https://gpd.hk/gpdpocket3

I don’t think screen size is the limiting factor when editing, but the lack of a convenient keyboard. I’ve edited quite large texts with a Bluetooth keyboard connected to my phone. Currently have a Nuphy air 75 and keychron k15 pro, small sized, mechanical, ergonomic Bluetooth keyboards, both make editing pretty acceptable.

To be honest, I haven’t even been able to make a tablet really work for me as a serious laptop replacement for any halfway serious office productivity work. Except for a very short trip I bring a laptop because otherwise I’ll run into something I have trouble doing that I need to do.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#233

Post by dredmorbius »

mrob wrote: post #134
Pxtl wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> insufficient local storage My phone has 128gb. How is that not enough for photo editing?

Raw photographs are tens of megabytes each, and it's not unusual to take hundreds per session.

Agreeing and amplifying: Taking a random search result, the Canon EOS R5 has a 45 MP sensor: https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/eos-r5?color=Black&type=New>

Assuming 24 bits per pixel, that's 1 Gigabit (128 MB) per image, or ~1,000 images on 128 GB storage.

Dedicated cameras have removable storage and professional photographers will carry multiple 500 GB -- 1 TB+ storage cards, swapping them out through a shoot.

I'll note that the iPhone 15 Pro specs list a 48 MP sensor, which is similar, though storage tends to be as jpeg rather than raw. Compression varies but sizes of 1/2 to 1/15 RAW at high quality are common.

Edit: Corrected GB -> Gb. Bytes are 8 bits.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#234

Post by jraph »

wayfinder wrote: post #207
ghaff wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree and also disagree with a few aspects of both your comment and the OP. First of all, to the OP, maybe not for the leet kids, but I absolutely find large amounts of text input on a phone to be a pain. I can do it if I’m away from a computer and have to, but I don’t enjoy it and it takes more time and requires a lot of concentration. As for cursor positioning, holding down the space bar on iOS works pr…

Maybe I’m a leet kid but I type 65 WPM on my phone so I find actual typing on my phone on par with typing on desktop, except if special punctuation is involved. …but the whole mobile experience is still terrible with a lot of scrolling, panning, and annoying text selection. I’m aware most people don’t type that fast so they would never type on mobile but for those that do, it would be sweet if the mobile experience w…

Wouldn't typing on a touchscreen for long periods cause RSI much faster than a keyboard in the long term?

(because of the body positioning - back, neck - and the hard surface)

(not arguing against improving typing on mobile, obviously)

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#235

Post by ghaff »

cratermoon wrote: post #230
ghaff wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree and also disagree with a few aspects of both your comment and the OP. First of all, to the OP, maybe not for the leet kids, but I absolutely find large amounts of text input on a phone to be a pain. I can do it if I’m away from a computer and have to, but I don’t enjoy it and it takes more time and requires a lot of concentration. As for cursor positioning, holding down the space bar on iOS works pr…

Holy cow, you just improved my life! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRUCnZFv9Ro

When I somehow inadvertently found out about this a few years back, I was “How could I not know this?”

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#236

Post by dredmorbius »

aranchelk wrote: post #202

> Mobile devices were originally designed for consumption. They weren’t and then they were. Palm, Nokia, and Blackberry were all devoting around half their user-facing surface area to content creation with physical keyboards. Near then end Nokia did make some really nice Linux-powered slide out keyboard devices. Best of both worlds if not for their thickness.

And before Palm had a keyboard, it had Graffiti, which could share screen space with display.

It took a short period of training but was actually quite good. Far better than onscreen keyboards.

I wouldn't recommend Graffiti for, say, trying to access a Linux shell. But for writing text, and editing it, it was serviceable in ways that current touchscreen devices aren't.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#237

Post by mid-kid »

DebtDeflation wrote: post #218
plaidfuji wrote: post #57

1000% agree with this post, wow. I can’t believe this is controversial.. it’s a disaster. I dread opening the mobile version of google docs, sheets, or even Notes for anything more than a grocery list. The problem is the target audience for this is business customers, and particularly those in management, so it’s a small market. ICs aren’t up and down as much between meetings and can largely stick to their desktop se…

Surprised it didn't mention the lack of a "Delete" key (at least in the standard Android keyboard). All that is provided is Backspace. On the desktop, I use Delete and Backspace equally, depending on where my cursor happens to be.

Can't speak for everyone but it took me a decade of computer usage to even "fit" the delete key in my text editing workflow and getting used to reaching for it. I still don't use it much, and it doesn't help that it's hard to reach on laptops and not simply shift+backspace. I think of the delete key as a power-user feature.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#238

Post by ketzo »

Grimburger wrote: post #106
plaidfuji wrote: post #57

1000% agree with this post, wow. I can’t believe this is controversial.. it’s a disaster. I dread opening the mobile version of google docs, sheets, or even Notes for anything more than a grocery list. The problem is the target audience for this is business customers, and particularly those in management, so it’s a small market. ICs aren’t up and down as much between meetings and can largely stick to their desktop se…

> business customers, and particularly those in management, so it’s a small market Is it really that small? It sounds like a massive market to me.

It’s literally the market that created the BlackBerry, one of the most influential devices of the last 20 years, so yeah it’s a big group.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#240

Post by Fatnino »

ghaff wrote: post #184
plaidfuji wrote: post #57

1000% agree with this post, wow. I can’t believe this is controversial.. it’s a disaster. I dread opening the mobile version of google docs, sheets, or even Notes for anything more than a grocery list. The problem is the target audience for this is business customers, and particularly those in management, so it’s a small market. ICs aren’t up and down as much between meetings and can largely stick to their desktop se…

I generally agree and also disagree with a few aspects of both your comment and the OP. First of all, to the OP, maybe not for the leet kids, but I absolutely find large amounts of text input on a phone to be a pain. I can do it if I’m away from a computer and have to, but I don’t enjoy it and it takes more time and requires a lot of concentration. As for cursor positioning, holding down the space bar on iOS works pr…

Holding down spacebar and swiping side to side changes keyboard language for me. Have to hold stationary for quite a bit longer before it becomes a cursor mover.
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