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Croc: Easily and securely send things from one computer to another

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Re: Croc: Easily and securely send things from one computer to another

#131

Post by dheera »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #117
dheera wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB cables involve about 5 steps and half my cables don't work because they were not built sturdy enough and got chomped by my office chair, standing desk, or something else. There should be a way to just right click and "send to phone"

I have a hub and an extra cable hidden under my keyboard. When I need to plug in a device for power or thunderbolt transfer it is a two step... 1) grab cable 2) plug in. Konnect is fine for other cases.

and then disable "do not disturb mode", swipe down notifications about 5 times until USB device pops up, open it, approve the hex shit, peck at the tiny button to change its mode from MDI/UTP/PCP/whatever other hell options are out there to a file transfer mode, then hope and pray it shows up on computer, then click, wait a long time, then navigate the phone's messed up file system before you can drop something in there.

Re: Croc: Easily and securely send things from one computer to another

#132

Post by bobbylarrybobby »

pepa65 wrote: post #70
tptacek wrote: post #8

A more popular and, I think, carefully analyzed alternative, from which croc was inspired, is Magic Wormhole; a good Golang implementation that compiles down to a single binary is wormhole-william: https://github.com/psanford/wormhole-william/releases I believe croc has some features wormhole doesn't (and some anti-features, like being able to pick curves and hashes). But also just that it's worth knowing that Magic…

I think Wormhole William is great, also has a mobile app. But when I discovered croc, I switched to that, it has been very reliable. From the developer: AFAIK, croc is the only CLI file-transfer tool does all of the following: - allows any two computers to transfer data (using a relay) - provides end-to-end encryption (using PAKE) - enables easy cross-platform transfers (Windows, Linux, Mac) - allows multiple file tr…

One thing missing from this list: a GitHub readme with a how-to. Magic wormhole makes you visit ReadTheDocs

Re: Croc: Easily and securely send things from one computer to another

#133

Post by tptacek »

bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #132
pepa65 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Wormhole William is great, also has a mobile app. But when I discovered croc, I switched to that, it has been very reliable. From the developer: AFAIK, croc is the only CLI file-transfer tool does all of the following: - allows any two computers to transfer data (using a relay) - provides end-to-end encryption (using PAKE) - enables easy cross-platform transfers (Windows, Linux, Mac) - allows multiple file tr…

One thing missing from this list: a GitHub readme with a how-to. Magic wormhole makes you visit ReadTheDocs

`wormhole send `

The output of the command tells you what to do next.

They really nailed the UX on this.

Re: Croc: Easily and securely send things from one computer to another

#134

Post by tptacek »

d-z-m wrote: post #115
tptacek wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Magic Wormhole: * Allows any two computers, NAT'd or otherwise, to transfer data * Invented the PAKE model that croc uses * Is cross-platform and runs on Windows * Allows multiple file transfers (directories) * Does not require a server or port forwarding. The thing croc does on this list that Magic Wormhole doesn't is resumption.

> Invented the PAKE model that croc uses Nit: Magic Wormhole pioneered SPAKE2's application in a file transfer utility, but the actual invention of SPAKE2 predates Magic Wormhole.

I don't mean that they invented PAKE's, I mean that they invented this application of PAKEs (I'd say: one of the very few genuinely useful PAKE use cases).

Re: Croc: Easily and securely send things from one computer to another

#135

Post by eviks »

brnt wrote: post #77
tptacek wrote: post #8

A more popular and, I think, carefully analyzed alternative, from which croc was inspired, is Magic Wormhole; a good Golang implementation that compiles down to a single binary is wormhole-william: https://github.com/psanford/wormhole-william/releases I believe croc has some features wormhole doesn't (and some anti-features, like being able to pick curves and hashes). But also just that it's worth knowing that Magic…

An even more popular alternative is Resilio Sync. I still use it because somehow sharing with the tech savvy isn't a big problem, but with the unsavvy is. A GUI and a single string is on the edge of the possible, and I share much more (large, noncode, files) with this group.

And it has a mobile client that has autosynced folders, so you only need to set it up once

Re: Croc: Easily and securely send things from one computer to another

#136

Post by eviks »

jcynix wrote: post #81

I agree that a secure way to transfer files between systems is a must. If two systems are at the same location, a small USB card reader (nowadays easily OTG capable) and an SD card allow me to transfer data. For systems connected only by a network: maybe I don't see the advantages of these tools (which I have to install first on any client) as all systems I use already provide ssh and rsync to do secure file transfer…

Can you replicate this simplicity in your sshrsyncs for 3 iOS/Mac/Windows devices :

Setup: 1) install an app 2) create a folder 3) share secret link with other systems

Use: 1) open an app 2) see all files in that folder autosynced with another system (if it's also running an app)

So transfer is as easy as opening an app and copying files to a shared folder

Re: Croc: Easily and securely send things from one computer to another

#137

Post by ggeorgovassilis »

tptacek wrote: post #109
ggeorgovassilis wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK it doesn't support authentication for private relays

Why do I care? All of these designs --- croc is "a Magic Wormhole" --- are end-to-end secure.

I can't tell you what _you_ should care about, but I wouldn't want to run an open relay everybody can abuse and eat up my traffic allowance.

Re: Croc: Easily and securely send things from one computer to another

#138

Post by networked »

dheera wrote: post #55

I wish there was an easier way to send things to/from a phone. I use a 1-person slack channel for this because I can't find a simpler way. Google Drive and Dropbox are both awful mobile clients.

The main thing I use for ad hoc file transfers is Total Commander for Android (https://www.ghisler.com/android.htm). It can copy files to and from a WebDAV inbox on the local network as well as my home directory (although the SFTP plugin I use for that is fiddly to set up and a bit buggy).

For copying the same things on a regular basis, I run rsync scripts in Termux (https://termux.dev/en/). They push photos from my phone to my computer and pull essential backup from my computer to my phone. They also synchronize themselves and Termux configuration. For exchanging files without a direct network connection, I have croc and the Rust version of Magic Wormhole (https://github.com/magic-wormhole/magic-wormhole.rs) installed in Termux.

It may seem arcane and archaic, but I have found this setup better (more predictable and more reliable) than anything "mobile-native". I appreciate that Termux behaves mostly like other Linux machines.

I had a pretty positive experience with Syncthing for Android on my previous phone. It was before I started using Termux. I had a directory called "clipboard" that synchronized between my desktop, laptop, and phone. Sometimes it took a while to notice new files. I would use it if I didn't use Termux or if I needed to keep multiple mobile devices in sync.

If I had to often send files to a mix of Android and iOS devices on the same local network, I would try LocalSend (https://localsend.org/).

Re: Croc: Easily and securely send things from one computer to another

#139

Post by falliancef »

Most people here are referring to transfers of their own data. How do people transfer their confidential information to say, their solicitors, who may be on different operating systems and behind NAT / firewalls?

Specifically if cloud services are banned by the solicitor's company.

You'd have thought by 2023 this would have been solved but I don't believe it has. Particularly as PGP email administration (including key management over time / replacement hardware) is non trivial and unlikely to be successfully achieved by the non tech savvy.

Re: Croc: Easily and securely send things from one computer to another

#140

Post by falliancef »

Most people here are referring to transfers of their own data. How do people transfer their confidential information to say, their solicitors, who may be on different operating systems and behind NAT / firewalls? Specifically if cloud services are banned by the solicitor's company.

You'd have thought by 2023 this would have been solved but I don't believe it has. Particularly as PGP email administration (including key management over time / replacement hardware) is non trivial and unlikely to be successfully achieved by the non tech savvy.

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