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iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

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Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#41

Post by stu2b50 »

foldr wrote: post #33
stu2b50 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's a fair characterization of the market. $300 point and shoots are indeed dead, but the prosumer photography market is as alive as ever, especially since the pandemic, during which every white collar worker seems to have decided to get a hobby of some kind. Analog film photography, famously, had a huge resurgence the last 5 or so years, and is quite popular.

>but the prosumer photography market is as alive as ever, I don't think you can really mean 'ever' here. Compared to the 1990s? The prosumer market might finally be starting to bottom out, but a lot depends on how much further smartphones improve. Analog photography is popular, but it is not making large amounts of money for camera manufacturers, as most people are using second hand gear.

To not be too pedantic about "ever", the current prosumer camera market is not shrinking, is growing, and the main manufacturers are increasing the pace of production, as models like the Fujifilm X100v have become highly sought after, but new, cameras that Fuji can't make enough of. Sales of the main full frame shooters Sony, Canon, Nikon, etc. are selling well, and we're getting active R&D on them. And the x100v is a "point and shoot", of course, but far more expensive (the real price for one is >$2k), far better image quality, and far better build quality.

Past the ~2000s these weren't really ever the cameras that laypeople bought anyway. Back when they were DLSRs, the cost and size were always prohibitive once cheap point and shoots were around. Cheap point and shoots are dead (but again, cameras like the x100v or ricoh gr are selling so well they can't make enough of them), but the interchangeable lens camera market is by no means in decline relative to the near past.

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#42

Post by neilv »

The comparison would've smashed the iPhone harder, if they'd used a good longer lens. My last student/amateur photojournalism kit was 2 APS-C bodies with a 70-200/4L and an old (but unusually sharp copy) 17-35/2.8L, plus a 50/1.4 or 28/1.8 in the bag. And very useful gadgets, like lens hoods, polarizers, and the occasional powerful strobe. I used the 70-200/4L for the majority of shots, and it was glorious.

Also, muscle memory on the controls of a pro/prosumer body and lens is real. With a little practice, a lot of the mechanics of framing the shot, focal length, and selecting the autofocus point are automatic and happen in an instant. When a smartphone could do that at all, it would do it poorly, and you'll lose the moment.

Lately, I've made an exercise of using only smartphone cameras -- iPhone and Pixel -- and it usually ends up as uninspiring snapshots, and now I can't be bothered to try.

Then it got worse. A few days ago, I was testing the optically longer camera of a new smartphone, on a car license plate. The phone appeared to be doing bad processing of the sensor, such that what in reality were gentle curves of front of the parked (and cooled-down) car, came out looking like fairly clear shots of something snake-like wiggly. I didn't knowingly have any "AI enhancement" feature enabled -- it just decided to go with lies, rather than deliver a much more useful if blurrier image.

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#43

Post by nayuki »

shortcake27 wrote: post #32
throw0101b wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was convinced phones were going to approach crop sensor quality but it’s not even close, the 80D completely smoked it. What is the size of a crop sensor (either APS-C, or even m5/4), and what is the size of the typical phone camera? How functionality do you have with aperture with a camera lens versus that of a phone (which often isn't real/physical, but may be simulated aperture)?

What’s the size of a photon? You seem to be suggesting that the limiting factor is the physical size of the sensor, which is totally absurd. Photography optics are not even close to approaching the limits of physics.

Wrong. Silicon image sensors are benchmarked by their "quantum efficiency" - the number of electrons generated by a photon. That number is something like 0.5, which isn't far from 1.0. There is very finite room for improvement in sensors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_efficiency

Now, the following point is not well-known, but the most important thing that determines image quality is simply the frontmost piece of glass in a camera system. Not the sensor size, not the ISO. The front glass determines how many photons you receive per second, how much the depth of field is, and how noisy the image is.

For example, shoot with a certain lens on a full-frame sensor. Now take that lens, put a "speed booster" behind it, and shoot with a crop sensor. Both images will come out essentially the same in terms of field of view, depth of field, and noise. Again, the front glass is what matters, and everything behind it in the optical system are just technical details.

Also as a reminder, shot noise is proportional to 1/sqrt(n), where is n is the number of photons. There are a very finite number of photos you can collect per pixel per aperture per second in real-world shooting situations, and that number is something like 10000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_noise

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#44

Post by lloeki »

vlovich123 wrote: post #40
phlsa wrote: post #17

In the “just point at something and press the shutter” scenario, phones have been just as good (and in some cases better) than dedicated cameras for a while. For me, the main reasons for using a dedicated camera are ergonomics and creative control. I rarely hold the device at eye level when taking a photo, since it makes for more interesting compositions. Somehow my fingers are always in the wrong position when I wan…

Aren’t there small wireless accessories to trigger the shutter?

I use wired earbuds and press the volume button.

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#45

Post by poisonborz »

We get these kind of comparisons since almost 15 years, even though it was for long obvious that it is never about quality - DSLRs will still take the lead for a long time - but what device you will carry. This was true the same way for the N95, iPhone 3GS or Galaxy S3.

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#46

Post by vr46 »

foldr wrote: post #16
throw0101b wrote: post #10

Tony & Chelsea Northrup just posted a video on a recent trip to Italy where they generally left their photo gear at home (taking only some 'token' equipment), and where generally not happy with the results. "My iPhone Camera FAILED me!": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ38JusO-JA Partly it's because while the 'computational photography' stuff can give good results, if you disable it, and go with a 'raw' format: *…

The audience of content creators like this is the ever-dwindling number of people buying expensive dedicated photographic gear. The vast majority of photography now is being done by people who aren't photo gear heads, because almost all of the gear is more than good enough.

Photography has gone through the roof in the last fifteen years due to camera phones, sure, but the overall market has increased too. I was at Photopia two days ago and I’ve not seen a better market for photography since the 1980s. Camera phones are simply the new point and shoot, taking their place at the bottom end or convenience end of the market, and many of those people enjoying using those cameras have a great route into photography.

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#47

Post by phlsa »

vlovich123 wrote: post #40
phlsa wrote: post #17

In the “just point at something and press the shutter” scenario, phones have been just as good (and in some cases better) than dedicated cameras for a while. For me, the main reasons for using a dedicated camera are ergonomics and creative control. I rarely hold the device at eye level when taking a photo, since it makes for more interesting compositions. Somehow my fingers are always in the wrong position when I wan…

Aren’t there small wireless accessories to trigger the shutter?

Yes, there's stuff like this: https://shop.fjorden.co No idea how well it works in practice, but it looks like it could alleviate some of the ergonomics issues.

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#48

Post by lostlogin »

vlovich123 wrote: post #40
phlsa wrote: post #17

In the “just point at something and press the shutter” scenario, phones have been just as good (and in some cases better) than dedicated cameras for a while. For me, the main reasons for using a dedicated camera are ergonomics and creative control. I rarely hold the device at eye level when taking a photo, since it makes for more interesting compositions. Somehow my fingers are always in the wrong position when I wan…

Aren’t there small wireless accessories to trigger the shutter?

Apple would say ‘Apple Watch’, with a real camera it gets called a ‘remote shutter release’ or similar based on a quick search.

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#50

Post by Zak »

grecy wrote: post #19

Phone cameras have come a long way, and they a so convenient for quick snaps. But "big" cameras still dominate in tricky situations. With my Sony mirrorless shooting in RAW mode for low light is basically cheating. I can shoot at 10,000 ISO without seeing grain. This is a single exposure, for example - no stacking, no trickery https://www.instagram.com/p/CersLuLBfCz/

It's also scaled to 1440x960 and... oddly for Instagram, not compressed to death. I imagine the noise would be more noticeable at full resolution or even printed relatively large and viewed at a reasonable distance.
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