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The Frustration Loop

herman.bearblog.dev

61–70 of 158 posts

Re: The Frustration Loop

#61
post #49
post #3

This reminds me of one of my former ESPN co-workers - Mike Davidson[1] - who founded of one of the first community news sites (Newsvine[2]) back in 2006. Newsvine had comments and upvotes and link submissions and posts - it was very reddit-esque except it was focused around the news. The team had to have a way to deal with spammers and trolls. They found the most effective way was to flag a user as a troll on the New…

How would this work for something like Twitter/X when accounting for individuals serving the US government? Someone could be flagged as a troll on the backend for unrelated reasons, but now their experience in communicating with someone in government is delayed. I understand that a delay is not the same thing as a block, but I wonder if the damage to the user’s experience is sufficiently similar for a federal judge.

Twitter has been doing things worse than that for years. They seem to even have different levels of shadow banning.

The practice is fundamentally malicious because innocent people get caught in it all the time. The two main problems both stem from the fact that they don't admit to doing it.

The first is that you're posting interesting things but nobody ever sees it because you're shadow banned, and then what you should really do is create a new account and start over, but you don't know why nobody ever sees it. "Maybe you just don't have much of a following yet." But you never will with that account. An innocent person is subjected to the penalty meant for a spammer -- and suffers longer for it because they have no reason to expect they're being punished when they haven't done anything wrong.

The second is that even if you figure it out, they still don't admit to doing it, the consequence of which is that there is no appeals process. So if you have an account with a significant following and then get shadow banned illegitimately, you're much more likely to notice this because your engagement falls off a cliff, but there is no process for undoing it other than to abandon your account and start over from scratch.

Re: The Frustration Loop

#63
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is real humans getting snared. My TikTok account is shadowbanned (anything I post now gets zero views, and my LIVE gets zero viewers). And my Instagram account got permabanned because they said I was impersonating myself. This was worse because I lost the entire account. They even had me send a selfie of myself and the instant I submitted the image was when they did the permaban lol.

> They even had me send a selfie of myself So they could compare it with what, the content posted?

They want to collect name:face mappings. I've had the same issue with IG but haven't got around to posting the selfie.

Re: The Frustration Loop

#64
post #10

I'm missing the part on how op determines valid users for the frustration loop. > Enter Akismet... Blocking spam on signup worked somewhat, but was easily circumventable > some spammers found ways to parade as legitimate blogs... which I would have to manually sniff out and flag. > This lead me to an idea: The Frustration Loop... When spam is detected... Waste their time and make them give up. > "Now hold up there He…

> I understand that giving details on detection is probably not a good idea and that the article is about The Frustration Loop, though.

That's the thing. It feels like no one wants to solve the problem; it will only hurt metrics and profits, I've already figured at this point /shrug

Re: The Frustration Loop

#65
post #8

Spam teams at social networks typically shadow-ban spammers. The goal of this is to make it as difficult as possible for the spammer to determine that they've been caught (which is why I think the frustration techniques, or simply account suspension aren't widely used). The field of spam-prevention is fascinating because it's essentially an arms race between companies deploying tactics to detect spam and sophisticate…

The problem is real humans getting snared. My TikTok account is shadowbanned (anything I post now gets zero views, and my LIVE gets zero viewers). And my Instagram account got permabanned because they said I was impersonating myself. This was worse because I lost the entire account. They even had me send a selfie of myself and the instant I submitted the image was when they did the permaban lol.

There is a clip from The Grand Tour where James May explains what happened when he tried to create an Instagram account: He signed up, discovered that there was already an account on there impersonating him, reported the impersonator, and so Instagram took the report and shut down his real account instead.

Re: The Frustration Loop

#68

The best spam protection I ever had, was a bunch of hidden text input fields on my mail contact form, with names like “blindcopy”, “bcc”, “cc”, “additional address”, etc. They all had default values. If the submitting handler detected any values in these fields that were different from the default, the submission was rejected. I don’t think I ever got a single bogus email from that form.

Spam scripts are much less smart than that. I added a hidden field with no text in it to a contact form, and a polite warning as the hint text for accessibility. If anything was filled into that field the submission was silently dropped. I was cc-ed on any entries, and I believe there were 0 spam emails in the 8 years or so that the form was up.

Re: The Frustration Loop

#69
post #58
post #3

This reminds me of one of my former ESPN co-workers - Mike Davidson[1] - who founded of one of the first community news sites (Newsvine[2]) back in 2006. Newsvine had comments and upvotes and link submissions and posts - it was very reddit-esque except it was focused around the news. The team had to have a way to deal with spammers and trolls. They found the most effective way was to flag a user as a troll on the New…

Spam and trolling even happens on a physical newspapers/radio/tv/books/magazines. Its just that you have to pay to do it. The rich/ceremonial/leisure classes have through out history been constantly spamming everyone with whatever shit occurs to their 3 inch brains, because they can afford to buy the largest amount of attention. To bad there is not enough attention for anything anymore cause production of content is…

Spam filter idea: posts with bad interpunction are likely content-free angry ramblings!

Re: The Frustration Loop

#70
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that standard, I think that the new Reddit mobile UI must consider everyone a troll.

Everyone who doesn't just replace www with old

There used to be i.reddit.com for the old mobile UI but they shut it down
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