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Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

cam.ac.uk

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Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been thinking about something similar. I think its usability will drastically improve once you are able to find overlaps and differences in meaning between the perspectives of different people/ideas. I would also suspect that it would be uncommon to not at least fall back on some ingroup definitions, even just for practical reasons. After all, it will likely be rare to learn new vocabulary for individual peopl…

That's interesting. With sufficient data we could probably train a model to come up with an embedding for the definition, and another model to identify which particular passages contribute most to a difference in the embedding (in order to highlight). If you would be interested in providing feedback on early versions of the project, drop me an email. Likewise, if you pursue a project like that, I'd love to hear about…

I cant promise anything, especially as i am still pondering the overall scope of the project, but if this turns into something i will hopefully make contact.

I am still considering the benefits and possibility of upfront structuring of information, knowledge, certainty and errors but information- and complexity overload is a real pain. Which also means i am keeping a bit of a distance to committing to how the end result should look. Especially as this is one of these projects that needs to be effortlessly integrated into an individuals existing process to be usable. At which point you might as well improve that process while you are at it.

Your approach on the other hand sounds quite practical, lets say combined with some hypertext structure like project xanadu or the hover boxes of lesswrong. The question would be how good the results get. Anyway, good luck, i think this could be quite beneficial.

Projects/Concepts you might (not) find interesting:

* Taiwan has a process called gov0 (gov zero), a communication channel aimed at re-framing proposed laws in a way that allow for reaching consensus. Currently done manually but consensus finding seems to be a key part of communication.

* Cognitive sciences / biases / warfare / behavior therapy. As well as processes aimed at capturing the human error, like crew resource management for pilots. All concerned with errors in our own perception and thinking * Juliane Gallinas TED talks

* Ontology vs epistemology, quite important for people with a CS background in my experience. I like to think of it in terms of complexity reduction in the context of information theory similar to an analog digital converter.

* The 5 level explanation series from WIRED https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raHM3k-uR0E

Especially the last one is a great example that communication is likely not a matter of finding THE description, but one of connecting your perspective to a topic/concept. Here it works through iterative reduction/increase of complexity, but working from related concepts should also be possible. Lets say one explanation for an engineer and one for a psychologist.

The post itself is also a good example for the the difficulty of communicating (after identifying and isolating) what is relevant and the necessity to cut what isnt. Which will differ depending on ones perspective and goals. I suspect the same effect does occur if you ask people to define the vocabulary they use themselves. Thus the focus on agreeing on the meaningful difference/overlap instead.

Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#152
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enough already, it's 2023 and I feel like having to maintain legacy sorghum support is just holding religion back. I say drop it out right and focus your prayers on quinoa.

Quinoa has a dedicated deity from the Inca pantheon, Mama Quinoa. I would assume that would provide the best support

In my search for more information on Mama Quinoa I found a website (https://www.godchecker.com/inca-mythology/QUINOA-MAMA/) that looks like a rabbit hole that I am going to fall down. I hope your pleased with yourself.

Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#153
post #122

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I think I said it enough on this website, but my personal experience with 4 psychanalyst led me to believe this is a quackery, a pseudoscience, and actually harmful for people who have real mental issues. And I'm not talking about those weird ideas about autism, that anybody with a brain who worked with autistic children or adults would know to dismiss, or that dumb dream analysis, I'm talking about clinical psychoan…

I believe your experience might be related to how psychoanalists work in the US (or the country you're from)? Here in Germany it's a highly regulated practice, and believe me, psychoanalysts refuse constantly patients with the pathological problems you describe because they are aware that psychoanalysis' is not fit for those. In fact they are also perfectly aware they are not psychiatrists, and they would never be ab…

I'm from France. It's regulated here too. They just think manic phase are 'female hysteria'. They are dangerous and I an certain osteopathic therapy brought more actual knowledge to PT than psychoanalysis ever brought to psychology.

At least their Jungian archetype and the 'animus anima' are 50% less sexists that they used to be and are now marketable for 'self help' expert, so I guess they are now able to make money by scamming without endangering people.

Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the point of the study. Many negative thoughts are safe to ignore. There's a difference in dealing with realitiy and wallowing in negativity for its own sake, or because of some freudian bullshit.

>That's not the point of the study. Be that as it may, there is a big difference between not wallowing and ignoring/suppressing something. Especially if you leave Freud out. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/suppress Suppression implies force and a struggle. Its quite different from not dwelling. I am pretty sure we are talking two ends of the same spectrum with an upper and a lower bound. The reason its wor…

Not wallowing in negative emotions can be a struggle.

Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's not the point of the study. Be that as it may, there is a big difference between not wallowing and ignoring/suppressing something. Especially if you leave Freud out. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/suppress Suppression implies force and a struggle. Its quite different from not dwelling. I am pretty sure we are talking two ends of the same spectrum with an upper and a lower bound. The reason its wor…

Not wallowing in negative emotions can be a struggle.

Indeed, but i would argue that this is a good indicator that you have room for improvement here. Which i found to be amazing news.

For example, depression is often characterized by black and white thinking and getting tunnel vision. You become so focused on the worst things you can come up with being true that you loose sight of your perspective being incomplete and the stress makes it harder and harder to snap out. Which results in either incomplete or erroneous conclusions you still hold with conviction. After all, you know X to be true and as a result that you are doomed to experience Y. So unless you are the only human not functioning this way, you have good chances of changing your experience without resorting to supression.

I think the difference in dealing with these patterns manifesting comes from insight. You can try to suppress that initial bad insight temporarily or you can come to terms what is happening to you and how much you should care about what at which time. A lot easier said then done sure, but going full suppression seems like really bad advice. Be it through distraction or a bottle, you sooner or later will be confronted with a distorted self image again.

At that point you are getting countermeasures for distortions and unrealistic expectations. You might get used to them, but they were just distortions. Getting used to them might have not been a good idea. Even if you reduce suffering, you are establishing a new higher normal.

I get that this sounds a lot like Freud, but i am looking at this more from a human error perspective. Its not much different from cognitive biases, its part of how the mind comes to erroneous / incomplete conclusions and how these can create negative feedback loops. Making the first step suppression instead of introspection seems really counterproductive. You are kind of stuck with your brain and might as well optimize some. Some agency is achievable and it often doesnt need to be hard. No sense in being sad about your brain being buggy. Brains just are.

Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool; briefly, can you describe your credentials? Why should anyone care what you think about this study?

If you don't care what I state about a particular study within the sphere of the replication crisis, I suggest you to fast forward instead of appealing to authority. Notice that I never asserted a position on either side of this "thought suppression" practice, I have no extrinsic incentives.

You didn't assert a position because you have no expertise from which your evaluation would mean anything.

Nobody cares if a random person off the street thinks a bridge looks sturdy.

Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#158
post #24

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I am personally atheist/apathetic. The closest thing you could get me to profess a religious fervour to is exercise (or martial arts) and mother nature. That said, I am a huge proponent of religion and can see how it is so important to people like my mother. She doesn't preach or judge but I can see how faith anchors her. It gives her answers and an unyielding optimism in the face of difficulty, and I can tell you as…

Don't get me wrong, there was a lot of bad with religion but modern faith in places like the UK or the Nordics seems to be a net benefit IMO... Even in light of what the Christian Nationalist movement is striving towards in the US, and in light of the ugly persistence of fundamentalism in places like Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan?

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Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't care what I state about a particular study within the sphere of the replication crisis, I suggest you to fast forward instead of appealing to authority. Notice that I never asserted a position on either side of this "thought suppression" practice, I have no extrinsic incentives.

You didn't assert a position because you have no expertise from which your evaluation would mean anything. Nobody cares if a random person off the street thinks a bridge looks sturdy.

As a matter of fact, people do care if a random person off the street thinks a bridge looks sturdy. I reported a wooden bridge with a beam rotted such that large nails pointed up into the roadway. The police cordoned it off within an hour, no engineers required.

Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#160
post #119

The idea of suppressed/repressed thoughts and feelings came from psychoanalysis, it doesn't surprise me that like most ideas of that pseudoscience, it's a bad one. I think lithotherapy might be less toxic.

What I found out in my discovery of Complex PTSD is the concept of the emotional flashback. That is, an event or situation triggers distant memories, and we relive it through emotions rather than conscious thought. This explains preverbal childhood traumas, and repeated traumas that do not resolve to a single memory or experience. They built up over time and they consistently elicited in us negative emotions and the associated physiological discomfort. It gets to a point where it becomes irrational, that we are afraid of our own shadows because it is so uncomfortable for us to relive traumas and re-experience emotions, but they are nonverbal, nonvisual, and nonspecific, so we weren't sure why we were being triggered in the first place.

I have missing memories. I can remember significant events in my childhood and they are mostly traumatic. Sometimes, I have attempted to explore the good times and find pleasurable memories. They are there, but they're overwhelmed by the ones that wounded me. Sometimes I'm told about my past by a third party, often by my primary abuser, who has an outstanding memory. I think that soon I should try to explore those good memories again. I wish I had a therapist to guide me.

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