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NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

webbtelescope.org

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Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#211

Post by jcims »

spartanatreyu wrote: post #102
harph wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enceladus so it's not just one random moon.

Sticking with just the Jovian moons, both Ganymede and Callisto are thought to have subsurface oceans too. Ganymede's oceans might be the largest in the entire Solar System. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganymede_(moon)#Subsurface_oce... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callisto_(moon)#Internal_struc...

800km deep. Oof.

Seems like an ocean world could develop intelligence but technology would be quite difficult.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#212

Post by bbor »

tzot wrote: post #117
v4dok wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To solve your dillema as a Greek. Both the continent and the planet have the same name. Europeans it is.

While on the subject of etymology, spelling the Greek word “dilemma” (δι+ληπ+μα) incorrectly does not help with providing a definitive answer as a Greek. I'm not starting a flame war, I just make an observation (and as it happens, I'm a fellow Greek). Yes, the word “European” (inhabitant of Europe) is rooted on the Greek word Europē, Zeus' mythical mistress (one of many), after whom both the continent and the satelli…

I think it was a joke, not a argument from authority as a greek :)

That said, I think ChatGPT is right here:

  ...the term "Europans" seems the most appropriate choice for the inhabitants of the Jovian moon Europa. It aligns with the linguistic patterns used for other celestial bodies, maintains clarity by avoiding confusion with "Europeans," and respects the Greek origin of the name "Europa" without introducing non-standard formations.

  Mercury: Mercurians
  Venus: Venusians
  Earth: Earthlings
  Mars: Martians
  Jupiter: Jovians
  Saturn: Saturnians
  Uranus: Uranians
  Neptune: Neptunians
  Pluto: Plutonians
  Moon: Lunarians
  Io: Ionians
  Europa: Europans
  Ganymede: Ganymedians
  Callisto: Callistans
  Titan: Titanians
  Rhea: Rheans
  Iapetus: Iapetians
  Triton: Tritonians
  Eris: Erisians
  Ceres: Cerians

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#213

Post by Cthulhu_ »

jvm___ wrote: post #174
jychang wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every once in a while, I get reminded that people don’t necessarily have a scientific background. 1. Water molecules are not indivisible, of course. Many biological processes will rip apart hydrogen and oxygen, or combine them back together, and have been doing so for billions of years. Industrial processes do the same. So there’s plenty of “new water” from oxygen in the air, etc. 2. New water/oxygen/hydrogen land on…

Is the water I drink the same water I pee? Or does it get taken apart and put back together with different pieces?

The Urine of Theseus, lol

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#214

Post by rsynnott »

sigg3 wrote: post #60
monlockandkey wrote: post #21

Europa is definitely the most exciting part of the solar system that sparks imagination. Literally 100s of miles of pitch black ocean with thermal vents, ripe for life. Getting kiddy thinking about the leviathan sized aliens roaming the deep ocean of Europa. Does anyone else feel this way?

Well technically they would just be Europeans.

There are currently two Jupiter moon exploration missions either en route or about to launch. Oddly, the European one (JUICE, launched earlier this year) will focus on Ganymede, while the NASA one (Europa Clipper, launches next year) will focus on Europa.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#215

Post by Cthulhu_ »

thombat wrote: post #204
kolinko wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also do it in Singapore iirc.

I'm curious why this would be worthwhile: since Singapore is an island conventional desalination would seem easier than either coping with the witches' brew of sewage (random amounts of random chemicals) or the expense of plumbing urine separately.

Seem being the key word here; if it's plain sewage, there's affordable, scalable and relatively low energy ways to turn it back into clean drinking water, vs desalinization which requires a lot of energy still.

But it's not just sewage though, it's chemicals as well, e.g. from medication, plus whatever else gets flushed.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#216

Post by bbor »

BurningFrog wrote: post #131
monlockandkey wrote: post #21

Europa is definitely the most exciting part of the solar system that sparks imagination. Literally 100s of miles of pitch black ocean with thermal vents, ripe for life. Getting kiddy thinking about the leviathan sized aliens roaming the deep ocean of Europa. Does anyone else feel this way?

If it turns out to not have life, we should introduce Earth life and let evolution run amok there. I realize some conservationists disagree.

_highly_ recommend the "Red Mars" series - deals with questions I never thought of before, namely "to what extent should we preserve the surface of other planets?

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#217

Post by jcims »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #39
SoftTalker wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's less clear than I'd expected. Is that image deliberately downscaled so as to not reveal the true capabilities of the telescope optics?

No, they're quite open about the capabilities of the optics (see https://webb.nasa.gov/content/forScientists/faqScientists.ht... ). It's just that Europa is very far away. Webb's mirror system has an angular resolution of about 0.1 arcseconds. Earth is currently about 630 million km from Europa (Webb is only 1.5 million km away from earth). Because the sine of theta is approximately equal to theta for values of theta…

Nice! Yeah, some things in the sky are actually way bigger than one might think. The first time I saw this composite of the moon and andromeda it kind of blew my mind.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/gMZb3.jpg

It’s probably a mental trick but once you know where the Orion Nebula is you can also just barely make it out with the naked eye.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Astronomy/comments/aecbbl/the_orion...

This is what it looks like ‘live’ through an 11” telescope if you try to hold your phone with your hands lol, and you can see the ‘fuzziness’ of it, not the color:

https://imgur.com/a/nt6FdLV

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#218

Post by ben_w »

coderenegade wrote: post #187
bilsbie wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrolox rockets have been making millions of gallons of new water on earth. Even burning gasoline creates some new water.

In fact all fossil fuels! When you split the carbon parts from the hydrocarbon, most of hydrogen parts end up as water. For every tonne of CO2 that's ever been emitted, there's a corresponding mass of water for which the hydrogen part was previously sequestered.

All fossil fuels except coal, which is a pretty big one.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#219

Post by sylware »

jcims wrote: post #210
sylware wrote: post #209

People must understand the following: if we find One Microbe in such environment, it basically means life is common in the universe. The other thing people must understand: "life" and "fully evolved intelligent life" are two very different stories.

Unless it has a common ancestor to life here. Then we still have to figure out if it started in this solar system or not.

Of course, I was implying that such possibility would have been properly excluded.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#220

Post by labster »

alex_young wrote: post #161
rcpt wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a few water molecules are destroyed and replaced created over a long time then is it still the same glass of water?

The famous glass of Theseus’ water eh? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

Is the Glass of Theseus half-full or half-empty?
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