Why does one random Jovian moon have so much water? And why not all similarly sized rocky bodies in the solar system? Isn't this even stranger than Earth's water?
Probably came from elsewhere and got caught in jupiters orbit
NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa
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Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is why I roll my eyes at alarmist talk of various processes "consuming X zillion gallons of water". Water is much stronger than that. It just passes through our processes and will outlast us all.
Your sort of responses to climate alarms are always the most disingenuous. We are consuming water from places where it has been relatively static, at rates far beyond its natural replenishment rate. THAT'S the issue. Yes, this is a closed system, and the human circulatory system is a closed system. But it's bad if you drain the blood from your brain faster than it is replenished.
It's only bad if there aren't undiscovered sources and/or processes we can use in the future to produce more water. It's technological optimism, not disingenuousness.
Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa
#143> a fascinating world with a salty, subsurface ocean of liquid water—possibly twice as much as in all of Earth’s oceans combined. If we brought water back a container of water from Europa would this be the largest amount of new water entering the earth since planets struck it billions of years ago? I briefly googled it (I dont know much about this stuff tbh): > The water on our Earth today is the same water that’s be…
Every once in a while, I get reminded that people don’t necessarily have a scientific background. 1. Water molecules are not indivisible, of course. Many biological processes will rip apart hydrogen and oxygen, or combine them back together, and have been doing so for billions of years. Industrial processes do the same. So there’s plenty of “new water” from oxygen in the air, etc. 2. New water/oxygen/hydrogen land on…
Point 1 above greatly understates the case. Water just sitting in a glass is constantly creating and destroying hydronium and hydroxide ions, and bare protons. Not to mention the carbon dioxide that gets dissolved as carbonic acid which can dissociate to bicarbonate.
On the other hand, its tough to talk about new water because under thermodynamics, all atoms of the same isotope at the same energy state are completely fungible, so it’s hard to say anything meaningful about the history of a molecule.
Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
Every once in a while, I get reminded that people don’t necessarily have a scientific background. 1. Water molecules are not indivisible, of course. Many biological processes will rip apart hydrogen and oxygen, or combine them back together, and have been doing so for billions of years. Industrial processes do the same. So there’s plenty of “new water” from oxygen in the air, etc. 2. New water/oxygen/hydrogen land on…
Point 1 above greatly understates the case. Water just sitting in a glass is constantly creating and destroying hydronium and hydroxide ions, and bare protons. Not to mention the carbon dioxide that gets dissolved as carbonic acid which can dissociate to bicarbonate. On the other hand, its tough to talk about new water because under thermodynamics, all atoms of the same isotope at the same energy state are completely…
If a few water molecules are destroyed and replaced created over a long time then is it still the same glass of water?
Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
Every once in a while, I get reminded that people don’t necessarily have a scientific background. 1. Water molecules are not indivisible, of course. Many biological processes will rip apart hydrogen and oxygen, or combine them back together, and have been doing so for billions of years. Industrial processes do the same. So there’s plenty of “new water” from oxygen in the air, etc. 2. New water/oxygen/hydrogen land on…
Point 1 above greatly understates the case. Water just sitting in a glass is constantly creating and destroying hydronium and hydroxide ions, and bare protons. Not to mention the carbon dioxide that gets dissolved as carbonic acid which can dissociate to bicarbonate. On the other hand, its tough to talk about new water because under thermodynamics, all atoms of the same isotope at the same energy state are completely…
True, but even Feynman talks about "new photons" when describing scattering.
Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Every once in a while, I get reminded that people don’t necessarily have a scientific background. 1. Water molecules are not indivisible, of course. Many biological processes will rip apart hydrogen and oxygen, or combine them back together, and have been doing so for billions of years. Industrial processes do the same. So there’s plenty of “new water” from oxygen in the air, etc. 2. New water/oxygen/hydrogen land on…
As a percentage of total water on earth, how many of the H2O molecules do you speculate came from comets or industrial processes? Same question for the biological processes you mention.
I'm not a scientist; but water is used in photosynthesis, which is probably the main chemical reaction it undergoes. [1] says that the C3 cycle consumes 120 GT of CO2 per year, that's 2.7267×10^15 mols of CO2. C3 carbon fixation consumes one mol of H2O per mol of CO2, so that's 2.7267×10^15 mols of H2O. That's
5 * 10^13 liters. The USGS says there's ~1.4 billion cubic kilometers of water on earth (who chose that unit?), compared to 50 cubic kilometers for the C3 fixation. That's a lot of glasses, but not many oceans. Perhaps a bigger factor might be from back and forth reactions in the oceans and atmosphere, but I'm not sure how to estimate those (e.g., water converting between different acids or getting hit by light in the atmosphere).
[1]: https://bio.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Biochemistry/Fundamen...
Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it truer to say "the hydrogen and oxygen on our Earth today are the same [...] 5 billion years"?
If those hydrogen and oxygen atoms had not previously been bonded into H2O, you would have to say this is “new” water, right?
What if they bonded with different atoms? To get truly duplicate water it would need to find its partner(s, who knew water was poly), I suspect the odds are low :-)
Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems pretty. Will read soon.
The film version is flawed but still well-worth anyone’s time who got this deep in the thread & enjoys hard, near-future sci-fi. My theory is that 2010: The Year We Make Contact is a lot like Blade Runner , pre- the various Ridley Scott re-cuts. Drop the voiceover, tweak the ending to be less literal / sentimental, fix some of the FX matting, and you’d be left with one of the best serious SF films since 2001 .
Surprised they haven't made 2061 with modern FX and budget so they can market it as a trilogy.
Must be too busy rebooting batman over and over for the 100th time I guess.
Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa
#149Europa is definitely the most exciting part of the solar system that sparks imagination. Literally 100s of miles of pitch black ocean with thermal vents, ripe for life. Getting kiddy thinking about the leviathan sized aliens roaming the deep ocean of Europa. Does anyone else feel this way?
If it turns out to not have life, we should introduce Earth life and let evolution run amok there. I realize some conservationists disagree.
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Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa
#150Europa is definitely the most exciting part of the solar system that sparks imagination. Literally 100s of miles of pitch black ocean with thermal vents, ripe for life. Getting kiddy thinking about the leviathan sized aliens roaming the deep ocean of Europa. Does anyone else feel this way?
Wondering if we could eat fish born on Europa and if there would be any ill effects.
Probably a prerequisite is their biosphere has a common origin with ours, so the biochemistry is shared. Otherwise you wouldn't fare much better than someone eating random chemical compounds from an organic synthesis lab.