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LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

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Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#131

Post by radicality »

x-complexity wrote: post #115
mulmen wrote: post #8

Why though? Where does this actually get used? This seems to represent two different relationships. The mother’s sibling could be a brother. For the father a sister is specified. What about the father’s brother’s younger daughter? The description says younger daughter in both cases but the name doesn’t specify. So what’s the class for the older daughter of the mother’s sibling or the father’s sister? And if age is re…

> Why though? Where does this actually get used? The first 2 letters of the string make it obvious: "CNLabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter" "CN" These labels are often used in Chinese & similar relationship models. It comes from the dual consequence of tightknit multi-generation families & a dense symbol-derived language. In Chinese, you can derive the term for a given rel…

I think the CN here means that this is part of the Contacts framework, it’s standard Apple naming convention.

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#132

Post by smeej »

waltbosz wrote: post #17

LabelContactRelationFathersBrothersNephewsCousinsFormerRoommate

I had no idea people label their family relationships in their contacts, but only one of my parents had a sibling survive to adulthood, and I only have two cousins, so I guess it's just not something I've ever had to worry about tracking.

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#133

Post by jhanschoo »

jes5199 wrote: post #120
mercutio2 wrote: post #105

Responding to a variety of questions made over the years about this: This is a constant intended to be displayed after localizing the constant . Its localized value will primarily be displayed to users whose preferred languages have a short word describing the relationship. But it ALSO needs at least some comprehensible localization in EVERY language, because I can send you a vcard for myself labeling this specific t…

are there multiple languages that have this exact relationship concept? because if it’s in a single language or family of languages, the idea that it can be translates into something generic seems questionable

Different Chinese languages/topolects have similarly elaborate names for family relations, but may use different words and differ in details.

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#134

Post by bradrn »

deaddodo wrote: post #98
prosody wrote: post #36

Of possible interest to HNers, kinship terminology of different cultures is a subject that has a very elegant taxonomy. It was a major line of inquiry in early modern sociology, which tried to link other attributes of how societies were structured to how they named relations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinship_terminology

None of the categories really describe common Anglophonic kinship terminology. Eskimo is probably the closest, but flattens/simplifies it quite a bit.

Yes, English is considered to have an Eskimo kinship system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo_kinship

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#135

Post by conductr »

mynegation wrote: post #113
bandyaboot wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be surprised to learn if most people regardless of language wouldn’t recognize the similarity of those two relationships.

If you squint hard enough - yes. I do not know if it is Sapir-Whorf, but if I grew up using completely different words for sisters of my spouse, brothers of my spouse, husband of my sister, and wife of my brother, they do not look that similar to me.

But you understand they’re all referring to aunts and uncles of your children

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#137

Post by flangola7 »

oceanghost wrote: post #121
jes5199 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are there multiple languages that have this exact relationship concept? because if it’s in a single language or family of languages, the idea that it can be translates into something generic seems questionable

I don't speak Armenian, but I dated an Armenian woman once, and she told me they have words for familial relationships that we didn't really have concepts for in English.

Like what? English already has all the "twice removed" and other definitions that no one actually uses.

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#138

Post by alexfoo »

miki123211 wrote: post #70
wizofaus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And very imprecise. Virtually nobody gets it right when trying to describe a relationship with an nth cousin m times removed. And recently I tried to work out a fairly basic relationship between myself and my son's step-sisters - they're not biologically related to me at all, or even by (current) marriage, but it seemed like there should be a term for it.

Languages like Polish are even worse, because you have to go in reverse, from the person described to yourself. It's the great great grandmother of the cousin of the uncle of the ex wife of your sister, not your sister's ex wife's uncle's great great grandmother.

Ah. Reverse Polish notation!

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#139

Post by mulmen »

klausa wrote: post #62
saagarjha wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes.

Kinda! If you have a contact with that specific option set, it'd display as >younger cousin (mother's sibling's daughter or father's sister's daughter).

That’s surprising. I’d expect it to be “cousin” in English. Why would it be the more specific string? Is it just too difficult to do the i18n?

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#140

Post by wly_cdgr »

bandyaboot wrote: post #90
mercutio2 wrote: post #86

If you are a native English speaker and are surprised a relationship label might translate with difficulty into another language/culture, consider: Brother-in-law It’s my sibling’s husband, OR my spouse’s brother. In many non-English-speaking cultures, that juxtaposition appears bizarre.

I would be surprised to learn if most people regardless of language wouldn’t recognize the similarity of those two relationships.

I don't perceive those relations as similar, although they are related - kinda mirror images of each other. One is the partner of family, the other is family of the partner. In the former case I expect to have the connecting person's (i.e. my sibling's) loyalty if push comes to shove, and in the latter case I expect the brother-in-law to have the connection's (i.e. my spouse's) loyalty.
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