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Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

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Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#121

Post by grozmovoi »

I'm an alumni of https://bradfieldcs.com/, and it enabled plenty of us to prepare to work at FAANGs. The courses aren't really for that though, but if you were to take one (I strongly recommend CSI), you will find yourself surrounded by people who crave knowledge and betterment of their craft and are very driven about their careers.

The CSI course itself isn't a FAANG prep nor will you take interviewing or leetcode classes.

Here's a free version (and larger in volume of knowledge) of what CSI offers to enable you to understand and interact with: teachyourselfcs.com/

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#122

Post by hnfong »

poisonborz wrote: post #65
jdjdjdjdjdjd wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you! No specific industries in mind. I am keen to move to a tech company like FAANG or similar not just because of their prestige but also because I want to work with the best engineers. In the jobs I've had outside tech (especially in the public sector), I've had pretty limited exposure to engineers who are passionate, and I feel I can learn from.

> I want to work with the best engineers Sorry but wrong mindset. You will not learn the most when you are surrounded and mentored by "yoda class" devs. The sad reality of the tech sector that this happens very rarely - not many teams have this growth attitude, everyone just wants to hire seniors who instantly have the best answers. You can learn just as well by surrounded by and inspiring juniors when solving proble…

What are you talking about?

TBH I can't even chain together any of your reasoning here. How does teams wanting to hire seniors imply juniors who join won't be able to learn? Were you on those teams? Did you actually see "yoda class devs" refusing to spend effort to grow their junior team members?

And how is mentoring juniors an even remotely acceptable substitute for learning from the best in the industry? Having juniors question your assumptions only works for making you aware that they might be bad, but doesn't necessarily help in guiding you towards making the right ones.

The only issue I take with GP's is the assumption they make with FAANG having the "best engineers". At tens of thousands of software engineers per company, the concentration of top talent is quite dilute, and if you're unlucky you'll see a lot of mediocrity just due to the large numbers. My impression is that often smaller companies with an strong engineering culture might have "better" engineers on average.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#123

Post by hnfong »

jdjdjdjdjdjd wrote: post #62
midasz wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a dig at OP but putting "senior developer" on your resume after only 2 years of experience really sets expectations.

This is exactly my concern! I have a senior on there, and I really worked hard to earn it. But now I worry that it will set too high expectations and make getting into a big firm much more difficult.

My impression is that it's never beneath FAANG HR to make junior level offers to "senior engineers" from non-FAANG companies if they think they can get away with a low ball offer.

So I guess that's "good news" for you, but then if you actually tell them you don't really have "high expectations" then be prepared to get a low ball offer..

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#124

Post by jstx1 »

nindalf wrote: post #29

I’m a UK based software developer without a CS degree. I wrote about my experience interviewing at various software companies (including Google) in 2021 - https://blog.nindalf.com/posts/tech-interview/ . I also talk about how I prepared for the interview, so that may be useful. If you want to talk to someone about this don’t hesitate to reach out over email!

You had already worked at Meta at that point, getting interviews from other similar companies as hard as it would be for someone in OP's position.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#125

Post by Projectiboga »

mindcrime wrote: post #97
treprinum wrote: post #66

You can do a master in CS even without a CS bachelor online at the University of Colorado Boulder via Coursera. You just need to take 2 classes and get at least B in each. https://www.colorado.edu/cs/academics/online-programs/mscs-c... But as they say, this will only put you on the radar, but then it's all about LeetCode-Hard and -Medium and system design.

Oh man... This is exactly what I need. I dropped out without finishing my Bachelors ages ago and have been thinking about looking for something like this that would allow me to pursue a Masters without having to go back through the grind of finishing a Bachelors first. Thank you for posting this. I'm going to give this a serious look.

[edit] My below post is for a typical MS program, but you're in luck this school will take you after completing a three course set. From their site

"No application, ever―just start learning and show us you are ready

Simply pass a three-course pathway with a B or better in each course to earn admission. No bachelor’s degree or extensive work experience required." /[edit]

Typically having a Bachelors is the basic entry requirement for a Master's program, with that program you can pass the three classes with B-s or better. There are adult edu divisions that will try and help you finish your degree with credits for life experience, but they usually require a certain amount of credits at their school, Rutgers was like 30 or 1/4 of the required 120 credits.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#126

Post by morelisp »

meneer_oke wrote: post #117
morelisp wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a formal CS education, although I've hired a bunch of people without. I'm just saying, a Harvard CS degree tells me either you're extremely bad with money, or you (or your parents) are more interested in social signalling than a thorough education. You also seem to be missing that the content associated with the certificate can be fine, but the validation process broken enough that the certificate per se (and…

Well the context is online courses from Harvard, MIT. Such as the CS50 course referenced by many even in this thread. Those courses are free, there is a option for a certification for around 150 dollar. People actually learn the basics of CS and foundational knowledge in those courses. And how to use git and GitHub. I never stated that those certs, or courses alone would be enough. This comment thread started because…

> Listing anything on a Resume is never pointless

Sorry, but you have absolutely wrong ideas about resumes, how they are read, and what information they convey. Both descriptively and normatively.

> Courses like the one mentioned are open, which means if you wanted to test that knowledge you could, easily.

If I have to test anything, I'm going to test the actual job skills. But actually the point of a degree/certification/whatever on a resume is to show me that someone else already did the testing so I don't have to spend time doing it. Conversely, if I have to test it again, it's pointless to put on a resume.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#127

Post by morelisp »

meneer_oke wrote: post #118
saagarjha wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I know about the courses. They're pretty good. I'm just saying that there's baggage attached to certificates from random courses, even if some of them are good.

I would agree, but the topic started with that they are anti signals.

You're still not getting it.

Taking the course is not a negative signal.

Putting the course on your resume, as if that conveys useful information, is.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#128

Post by a_vanderbilt »

solardev wrote: post #99
dividedcomet wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Site Reliability Engineer - I’m one too lol. Most of what you do is work with dev teams to make sure their service is reliable, then slap an SLO (service level objective) to make sure their service meets a certain threshold of reliability.

Can I ask what your day to day looks like? Are you configuring services? Writing code and tests? Like what are the things you do for reliability? (I've never been in a company big enough to have one of these, so I'm just trying to understand)

It's going to vary based on the company you're with but a typical day for me includes reviewing/writing code, attending some meetings for projects, and answering pager duty when something goes boom. Occasional post-mortems and active maintenance of systems. I was up until last week an SRE at a firm maintaining an industrial information system and related services.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#129

Post by a_vanderbilt »

jdjdjdjdjdjd wrote: post #54
jwestbury wrote: post #10

You don't need a CS degree and you don't need certs once you've established yourself. I've been in SRE or SRE-adjacent roles at Amazon, Microsoft, Dropbox, and now a quant hedge fund (the first three in the US, the last in London). My only degree is in English lit. Your hardest step is getting into your first job with good name recognition in the tech industry. For this, your best bet isn't certs, it's networking --…

Thanks! Yeah, my CV has a big financial organisation on it and a medium-sized university. I think getting a job with better recognition in tech is the biggest hurdle.

Everyone has their own journey, but I got into the market without a big name on my resume by doing things in my own time that got me recognition. I started giving talks about information security to local groups at colleges and whatnot. Wrote some software that did some cool stuff, and wrote books that no one ever read. Nothing particularly mind-blowing, but it got me the connections that gave me a seat at the table. Eventually I interviewed with a startup and they liked my work and pulled me onboard.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#130

Post by a_vanderbilt »

gorjusborg wrote: post #113
mindcrime wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a big difference between these two types of people: 1. Collects certifications just to pad their resume, and get there probably by mostly studying brain-dumps and memorizing the answers. Often have little or no actual experience with the technology in question. 2. Gains certifications related to things they have actually done / are actually doing, and use the certification process as a "forcing functi…

I group cert-seekers together. I don't see motivation mattering. People who have time to 'prove' their knowledge/skill are really just showing that they aren't really into the thing, they are into being recognized as being into the thing. The exceptions are certifications that are required by law.

I feel it's a bit more nuanced. If someone is early in their career and they have some decent certs (CCNA, RHCSA, Sec+) then I see it as a positive. What really matters is how they present that knowledge. As you have alluded to, a lot of candidates just memorize and regurgitate to get the cert. Unfortunately, at big firms the resume robots filter out plenty of great candidates simply because they lack ITIL or some other kind of useless cert. They don't get a chance to show off what they know.
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