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Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

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Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean this in the nicest way possible. I genuinely have nothing agaisnt you and this is as far as I know the first time i've ever read one of your comments. You appear unsufferable. If i was in charge of deciding whether or not to hire you, I would not, based on this comment.

I agree with this sentiment. Something about the phrase “the bleeding edge of tech (AI)” is just very off putting.

It is that perfect combination of over-confidence and lack of understanding that often veils insecurity and incompetence.

Screams Dunning-Kruger effect.

Again, I also have nothing against the person here, it is the behavior that is a red flag.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#112
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly does an SRE do (Software Reliability Engineer, right?)? I've heard the title before but don't quite understand it.

Site Reliability Engineering (SRE) is a term coined by Google. The goal of the job is keeping large systems online and operational. Think: systems engineering, DevOps, and sysadmin at scale - leveraging automation. Lots of other shops still call it DevOps Engineering, Production Engineering, etc.

I wanted to joke that some still call it sysadmin so they can pay you like one, but it is probably not as funny as I thought.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have over 100 Coursera/edX/Udacity certificates and work on the bleeding edge of tech (AI). MIT's Underactuated Robotics got me into the first cohort of Udacity's Self-driving Car Nanodegree. I think you are shooting yourself in the feet if you plainly reject people like me who just want to keep learning new things.

I think there's a big difference between these two types of people: 1. Collects certifications just to pad their resume, and get there probably by mostly studying brain-dumps and memorizing the answers. Often have little or no actual experience with the technology in question. 2. Gains certifications related to things they have actually done / are actually doing, and use the certification process as a "forcing functi…

I group cert-seekers together. I don't see motivation mattering. People who have time to 'prove' their knowledge/skill are really just showing that they aren't really into the thing, they are into being recognized as being into the thing.

The exceptions are certifications that are required by law.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#115
post #69
post #9

Study leetcode and system design. That's enough.

It's not enough because studying doesn't give you an interview.

That's true. Grind LC/sys design and then apply to every top company (not just FAANG) and get referrals everywhere you can. I got interviews places that had passed on me a few weeks before just by getting a referral.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#116
I wrote this FAANG interview guide a while ago after doing the LC grind and interviewing a bunch of places. I email it to people when they ask me about getting into FAANG. Note that Blind, while useful, is very toxic:

0. Total Compensation (TC) Salary comparison site: https://www.levels.fyi/ Anonymous posting with verified employees: https://www.teamblind.com/

These are the best tools for finding out what compensation actually is at these places. I know enough people in these companies to know these numbers are accurate. Keep in mind these numbers often include stock appreciation. You can filter to new offers to get numbers that exclude stock appreciation.

1. Leetcode (LC)

FAANG+ interviews always involve solving programming problems in real time. The best place to practice is Leetcode.

Buy a yearlong Leetcode premium subscription and do all the modules listed here, in no particular order, but skip decision trees and machine learning: https://leetcode.com/explore/learn/

When you are done with that, do all the problems on this list: https://www.teamblind.com/post/New-Year-Gift---Curated-List-...

A lot of these problems are on the modules linked previously, so you will only have 30-40 new problems here

Next, do random problems until you "see through the matrix." Focus on medium level problems. Try to do something like 35% easy, 50% medium, 15% hard. If you can't find the optimal solution to a problem, "upsolve" by reading a bit of the solution and trying again. If you still can't get it, copy the code of the solution and study it. Then erase it and try to solve it from memory. Periodically go back over solved problems and re-solve them while taking notes. Your goal should be to solve two random LC mediums in ~35 minutes. Solve problems out loud to simulate communicating your thoughts to an interviewer.

Consider using Python as your interview language if you are comfortable enough with it. It's faster than Java for writing. Some places will have you run the code, others it will be a glorified whiteboard, so don't use the run button as a crutch. Around two weeks before your interview, start doing company tagged problems like: https://leetcode.com/company/doordash/

Start doing this part first and grind it hard. It might take 3 months, it might take a year. It takes as long as it takes until you think you can crush it.

2. System Design

The system design interview tests your ability to piece together components to build an entire product or feature. A typical question is something like "design a URL shortener that serves 1B requests per day." You will need to choose database/pubsub/caching technologies appropriate to the problem, describe DB schemas, caching strategies, partitioning/replication schemes, design APIs, etc.

For senior level roles, this will be the most important part of your interview as far as leveling. If you are shaky, they will downlevel. Buy DDIA: https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Data-Intensive-Applications...

Read it more than once.

These courses on educative.io are useful: https://www.educative.io/courses/grokking-the-system-design-... These videos are also really good: https://www.codekarle.com/

Also FAANG level engineering blogs. Uber/Doordash/Netflix/Facebook. Tech talks on Cassandra/Kafka and stuff like that.

Videos are the best last minute prep before interviews for design.

3. Applying

Get referrals wherever you can. Most places will ignore you unless you have them. I applied to probably 25+ companies and got rejects or ignored for all but Uber, AirBnB and LinkedIn. Places I had referrals to I scored onsites for 100% of the time, including places that rejected me before a referral. You can get them referrals off of Blind, but you probably also have people in your network in FANG and top tier companies. People will be motivated to refer since referral bonuses are usually large.

4. Interviewing

The process is recruiter call -> "phone screen" (do an LC problem on Hackerrank on a zoom call) -> "onsite" which is 5 hours of zoom...usually 2 coding, 1 behavioral (maybe a small coding question as well), 1 design.

Do mock interviews with friends/colleagues for LC problems. I would totally be willing to do mocks with you when you are ready. I had 3 different people give me a total of 6 mock interviews. You can also pay for this with different companies like interviewing.io or randoms off Blind. I can give you the contact info of the guy from Uber who did the system design mock with me as well. He is super super good. It's much harder to find mock interviewers for system design.

Also for interviews you can interview over 2-3 days after 3pm PST to avoid taking time off work. Recruiters will let you push back interviews for any reason multiple times, especially if it's for more interview prep, so if you aren't where you want to be before one, it's totally fine to ask for more time.

5. Negotiating

You should try to get all your interviews lined up very close together to get competing offers, which can increase your offer by a lot.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems even in this thread there are many without any certificate nor formal education. Would it be possible to explain how that is happening?

I have a formal CS education, although I've hired a bunch of people without. I'm just saying, a Harvard CS degree tells me either you're extremely bad with money, or you (or your parents) are more interested in social signalling than a thorough education. You also seem to be missing that the content associated with the certificate can be fine, but the validation process broken enough that the certificate per se (and…

Well the context is online courses from Harvard, MIT. Such as the CS50 course referenced by many even in this thread. Those courses are free, there is a option for a certification for around 150 dollar.

People actually learn the basics of CS and foundational knowledge in those courses. And how to use git and GitHub.

I never stated that those certs, or courses alone would be enough. This comment thread started because someone called it anti-signal. Listing anything on a Resume is never pointless, it tells us something about the potential hire.

Courses like the one mentioned are open, which means if you wanted to test that knowledge you could, easily.

That could tell you so much about the potential hire:

* Did they actually do the course.

* Did they retain the information.

* Did they understood the material.

* How did they use the information, in their own projects or clients.

From those answers you would even be able to learn more about their seniority level.

The point is, "anti-signals" is just not everywhere the case. It might be for some, sure. But how many of those would like to see formal CS education?

Seems that even you are more on the side of actual code examples. And in order to create great code, allot of deep knowledge is needed. Which those courses provide.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please take a look at the course. The courses from Berkeley, Harvard, Stanford, MIT are quite good. There is no paying, just knowledge.

No, I know about the courses. They're pretty good. I'm just saying that there's baggage attached to certificates from random courses, even if some of them are good.

I would agree, but the topic started with that they are anti signals.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your insight. Apple is one of the few FAANG companies with a decent number of open vacancies in the UK at the moment. Can you tell me what you mean by shipped code? I've shipped plenty of code in my current job (none of it is that exciting, though). I probably don't emphasise it enough on my current CV, now I think about it.

Ideally you have a product you worked on on the App Store or equivalent. Excellent if you have some of the code with you (to the degree you are allowed to). Both of these things lead to natural points of conversations with your interviewer. "Have any problems with concurrency with you approach?" "Any user feedback that caused you to make changes to the app?" etc....

A portfolio of shipped code might work for Apple but most other FAANGs probably gravitate towards standard programming puzzles.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#120
post #38

For certification, I don't think it's important for FAANG - a referral or other way of getting a recruiter to get you to an interview, and passing the interview, is all that really matters. The only part of a degree course that really matters in an interview context is algorithm analysis. You need to understand how the cost, in space and time, of code you write scales with the size of inputs. Degrees and certificates…

I have a degree from a good university, it's just not in CS. So hopefully that won't be a problem down the line. Referrals seem to be important. I lack the connections at the moment. Need to try and find ways to network with people in the industry.

Networking will help. Referrals gives you higher chance of getting an interview. As long as the interview goes well, the degree (or lack thereof) doesn't matter.

You probably want to go to play with a couple problems from leetcode though. I'm not for the grind, but there's a high likelihood at some point you'll be asked questions like those. The last thing you want is to be surprised by a "standard" interview question like those.

There are other resources (books, etc.) that supposedly help you prepare for the interview. Make sure you spend some time preparing for the interview if you get one.

Also, I don't think past industry experience makes much of a difference unless it's in a firm of a similar "tier". Staying in a public sector org as a software engineer doesn't really do you much good if your aim is to enter a big tech firm. It might even be considered an anti-signal by some. FWIW, if I'm involved in the hiring process and see a candidate who's worked in the public sector for years, I'd be slightly concerned with them picking up "bad" habits that don't meld well with tech companies (and will adjust my interview questions to try to tease out details on that front). I can't stress this enough -- don't expect that more years in your current job will increase your chances, it's equally likely that it will count against you.

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