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Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

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Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#51

Post by _lvbh »

Arathorn wrote: post #17
the_common_man wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is sliding sync a separate service and not just part of synapse itself?

Because the API is still evolving, and it's also useful that it supports other homeservers than Synapse. It's also written by an entirely different bunch of people (it's effectively written by the Dendrite team rather than the Synapse team). Once the API is stable I'm sure all the homeservers will implement it natively. Until then, think of it like a reverse-proxy that lets an HTTP/1 webapp talk HTTP/2 to the outside…

> it's effectively written by the Dendrite team rather than the Synapse team

I would then ask why it isn’t integrated into Dendrite

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#52

Post by Twirrim »

geek_at wrote: post #43
rabbitofdeath wrote: post #35

I love matrix - I've been running a Synapse homeserver for over 2 years now for friends and family. We love it. Despite minor problems (upgrading postgres for example) it has been smooth sailing. I really want to stay up to date but they don't make it easy! I'd love to add sliding-sync to my existing docker stack, but I feel like I'm in way over my head!

I love the idea of matrix (synapse + element + mobile apps) and I have started moving my family there too but we had so many problems with notifications not being sent to the phone unless you actively open the app. There is a huge discussion about that on git and some can't reproduce, some can't get a single notification even though the apps notification checkmarks were all green. So it had a very very low WAF [1] an…

If any of those are android users, it may be down to the non-android standards friendly battery optimisation the manufacturer ship their devices with (e.g. Samsung, Huawei, OnePlus, Xiamoi, etc.)

https://dontkillmyapp.com/

I've had more issues with missing notifications on my OnePlus than I ever had on my Pixel (I have list of reasons why I'll never buy Google hardware again, mostly coming down to their support). Most issues get fixed by me persuading OnePlus to stop applying their secret sauce to power control

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#53

Post by kevincox »

neilv wrote: post #15

Thoughts on how this will get us towards when libre software privacy&security type people are ready to advise friends to move to Matrix for personal communication? (To be clear, the platform has to be all open source and open standards, actually decentralized, guided by those principles -- not an effectively proprietary play even if nominally open. For example, you should be able to get all the same functionality wit…

FWIW my partner and mother are using it. We have had the occasional key synchronization issue with Element but has been mostly smooth sailing. I did walk them both through the setup but they probably could have managed. However they have some basic tech skills. I suspect that others in my family with little tech literacy would need to have it set up for them but would probably be fine after that.

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#54

Post by Arathorn »

neilv wrote: post #40
Arathorn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matrix 2.0 is a major step towards getting friends & family on Matrix. Firstly, it's not introducing new features - it's just making the current featureset work super-efficiently (while retaining compatibility with today's Matrix). So there should be no fragmentation between Element/Fluffychat/Thunderbird, with the possible exception of the new scalable encrypted VoIP conferencing (but then very few Matrix clients im…

Thank you for the comments. I'll keep my fingers crossed that this plays out well. > plus you can always just embed an Element Call instance That sounds like potentially a commercial embrace&extend&extinguish situation, which we need to avoid.

Yup, good call point, which is why we deliberately implemented two different independent group VoIP implementations - the one in Element Call (based on matrix-js-sdk) and the one in Hydrogen (based on hydrogen-web-sdk).

Admittedly the new livekit-based implementation takes us back down to a single implementation for now, but in its defense it’s only a few weeks old (with e2ee). Hopefully others will spin up independent implementations rapidly - although right now it does introduce a potential commercial EEE situation… but from on LiveKit rather than Element.

Eitherway, it’s something we’re painfully aware of… while also trying to ensure we find enough $ to pay for dev on Matrix (and Element) otherwise the whole thing collapses.

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#57

Post by kibwen »

Techy friend group of mine migrated from Discord to a self-hosted private Matrix server a few months back. No complaints so far, although we didn't use Discord's voice/video/screen-sharing features (which I hear that Matrix intends to support eventually).

UX-wise, it made me appreciate the distinction between Discord's "everyone is subscribed to every channel in a server by default" stance, and IRC/Matrix's opposite approach. The latter certainly scales better, but the former is so, so much better for discoverability, so it's probably the better default for small servers.

And if you're looking for a Matrix client with a Discord-like UI, try Cinny.

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#58

Post by Arathorn »

em-bee wrote: post #44
Arathorn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matrix 2.0 is a major step towards getting friends & family on Matrix. Firstly, it's not introducing new features - it's just making the current featureset work super-efficiently (while retaining compatibility with today's Matrix). So there should be no fragmentation between Element/Fluffychat/Thunderbird, with the possible exception of the new scalable encrypted VoIP conferencing (but then very few Matrix clients im…

element still has serious usability issues that need to be fixed before i can get friends or family on board. the way threads are displayed in the browser versions makes them hard to follow. in our hackerspace, where many are tech minded people, i see regular complaints about that. scrollback to unread messages often fails. i have never had another chat application where that was a problem. this should just work. the…

Sounds like you’re talking about Element Web or Desktop here. On Mobile, we just rewrote the app as Element X and it addresses almost all your concerns (other than per-room nicks, although ironically Element Web does have that today - try the /roomname command).

Having got Element X out the door, my attention at least is going to swing back to Element Web. In terms of encryption disasters, we are about to switch Element Web’s crypto to the same rust implementation as Element X, hopefully next week - you can track the progress at https://github.com/vector-im/element-web/issues/21972#issuec.... Hopefully this will make a much-needed massive improvement on encryption, while also speeding it up 5x or so. On Element X, encryption failures are almost unheard of (other than when talking to Element Web).

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#59

Post by kibwen »

orblivion wrote: post #31

> The European Union’s Digital Markets Act (DMA) is a huge step in that direction - regulation that mandates that if the large centralised messaging providers are to operate in the EU, they must interoperate. Wow. Not interested in winning the war this way.

Requiring protocols for interoperation results in more competition in implementations, which is often the better scenario as far as users are concerned.

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#60

Post by Arathorn »

mike-cardwell wrote: post #47
em-bee wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

element still has serious usability issues that need to be fixed before i can get friends or family on board. the way threads are displayed in the browser versions makes them hard to follow. in our hackerspace, where many are tech minded people, i see regular complaints about that. scrollback to unread messages often fails. i have never had another chat application where that was a problem. this should just work. the…

Encryption in Matrix is a nightmare. I set up Synapse and pulled half a dozen or so people onto it. We have a few chat rooms. Randomly different users clients are unable to decrypt the messages of other users clients. You click some button about syncing encryption keys, and nothing happens. Then randomly a week later you can start reading each others messages again. shrug This has been going on for years now. This al…

Sorry. As per the sibling comment to yours, we made a decision on Element Web/Desktop to rip out the old encryption implementation and replace it with matrix-rust-sdk’s crypto implementation about a year ago, and while it’s due to land next week, it means that some folks have had a miserable time in the interim.
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