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Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

supercoders.com.au

21–30 of 45 posts

Re: Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

#21
post #17

I bet most people get the "protected" one wrong, because it's actually strictly less restrictive than package access in Java. That is, protected members can be accessed by anyone within your same package. Do you reject people for not knowing that any class in the same package can access protected members? If so, you probably just weeded out a huge percentage of Java programmers.

Is this about Java ? In C# that protected would be accessible from derived class but only trough the derived type, and what you described would be internal, ie. allow access from any class in the assembly. Terminology could be applied to C++ but it doesn't have syntax for interfaces and abstract classes.

Altough I like that answer you gave and this sort of "detailed" questions (I don't think the article had that in mind tough), primarily because if you can answer it I would guess that you know Java enough to be usefull without needing any furhter questions. Someone reading trough a textbook might read that but won't remember it unless he knows the implications, and if he knows that he knows Java. And if you don't know it that cool too, there are other questions like this that demonstrate actual expirience with the language/tools vs. shallow textbook trivia.

Re: Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

#22
post #18

When you see all five questions together, it's obvious they're about Java (edit: or maybe C#, since the terminology is the same.) Taking them one by one in an interview, you'd have no way of knowing, so good luck on providing "accurate" answers. Imagine if "What is an interface?" was the first question you were asked. That's so vague it's almost philosophical. Finally, I'm really glad I've done enough Java programmin…

You nailed it with "What is an interface?". Interviewers really mean Java interface.

Back in the day, I was told in an interview: "While they were a Java shop, this interview is about general programming concepts."

The first question they asked was "What is an interface?".

Re: Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

#23
post #18

When you see all five questions together, it's obvious they're about Java (edit: or maybe C#, since the terminology is the same.) Taking them one by one in an interview, you'd have no way of knowing, so good luck on providing "accurate" answers. Imagine if "What is an interface?" was the first question you were asked. That's so vague it's almost philosophical. Finally, I'm really glad I've done enough Java programmin…

I don't have to imagine; I've received, "What is an interface?" as a first question in three different interviews over the last couple of months. Never mind that Java isn't anywhere on my resume, I made it clear to the recruiter before the interview that I don't know Java (not that I mind learning if necessary for the job, just don't send me to a job interview that requires it), and they were ostensibly interviewing me for a senior non-Java-specific position that required solid math skills.

I'm not quite sure what they're trying to filter for, but when one uses language-specific trivia as a starting point for an interview, it's going to filter out a lot of people that many companies claim they're so desperate to hire.

Re: Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

#24

This may because most decent developers won't touch a recruiter with a 40 foot pole unless they absolutely have to. Hence, you're seeing a somewhat skewed version of the developer population.

ps. CPlatypus - if you read this, you seem to have been hellbanned, for that literally/figuratively jab last week, or possibly belatedly for your anti-VC-patent rant.

Completely undeserved IMO, so I thought I'd let you know (you don't have contact details in your profile).

Re: Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

#26
I don't understand why you want to look for indicators that someone will be a good coder... rather than actually see if they are a good coder (ie. actually look at their code). I understand looking at peoples code takes time... but really that's why companies are paying recruiters, to save them time.

I would guess if there was some magic set of indicators that shows if someone is a good coder or not... we would have worked that out by now. It turns out there isn't... look at code.

If you aren't able to read code and evaluate someone by their code, you shouldn't be hiring software developers. How did we end up in a position where people that understand code, hire people that don't understand code (recruiters) to hire people that can code.... what am I missing here.

Re: Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

#27
post #22
post #18

When you see all five questions together, it's obvious they're about Java (edit: or maybe C#, since the terminology is the same.) Taking them one by one in an interview, you'd have no way of knowing, so good luck on providing "accurate" answers. Imagine if "What is an interface?" was the first question you were asked. That's so vague it's almost philosophical. Finally, I'm really glad I've done enough Java programmin…

You nailed it with "What is an interface?". Interviewers really mean Java interface. Back in the day, I was told in an interview: "While they were a Java shop, this interview is about general programming concepts." The first question they asked was "What is an interface?".

[deleted]

Re: Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

#28
You called me last year. I was just in a middle of re-painting my lounge room. One of the first questions from you was "What is polymorphism?" (or polymorphic behaviour) In my mind - "Oh, crap, one more stupid question from the recruiter who wouldn't understand a word". And I've started with some rubbish trying just to "hit your keywords". You cut me and told that you are quite technical and I can use technical terms. I got confused (nervous) at that moment and our phone talk finished in a minute. From my side - "shit! What a rubbish I was telling him". From your side - "another idiot, trying to get a high paid job"

There is something wrong in recruitment process through agents.

Re: Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

#29
post #17

I bet most people get the "protected" one wrong, because it's actually strictly less restrictive than package access in Java. That is, protected members can be accessed by anyone within your same package. Do you reject people for not knowing that any class in the same package can access protected members? If so, you probably just weeded out a huge percentage of Java programmers.

> you probably just weeded out a huge percentage of Java programmers.

Sounds like a good start ;)

Re: Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>won't even consider job seekers who don't have this stuff down That's not the point, it means different things to different programming languages, which means there is more than one correct answer unless you get more specific. Further, it's virtually irrelevant to Python programmers since the OO model there is "we're all consenting adults". Have what down? You haven't even stated a well-formed question.

Imagine you answered on the phone that your expertise is in python, where all members are virtual and public, visibility is only by convention, duck typing makes interfaces largely unnecessary and abstract classes only exist as a standard library feature to allow isinstance(variable, BaseClass) to work properly. If a recruiter declares that a failed answer then I would question their process, but it can be a good int…

I've given answers similar to that, where I explained the place of each terminology and why it means nothing in my language(s) of choice.

I've also gotten rejected for either:

(A) Not having enough experience in their language of choice, despite apparently knowing both.

(B) Not knowing the "answer" to the question.

You assume too much about the typical recruiting process.

tl;dr this is why I work at a startup now.

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