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Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

supercoders.com.au

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Re: Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

#11
post #2

So according to this post, companies are only going to hire the top 0.5% of programmers to their entry-level positions. Something is seriously wrong with this employment model if 99.5% of the labour pool can expect to never find work.

No, but companies will only hire the top 0.5% of applicants to regional third-party IT recruiters.

The bottom 99.5% of chronically unemployed tech hopefuls is a very different group than the bottom 99.5% of software developers.

Re: Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

#12
post #5

These questions cover language-specific keywords of a specific programming paradigm.

Even so, most employers that we work with won't even consider job seekers who don't have this stuff down.

>won't even consider job seekers who don't have this stuff down

That's not the point, it means different things to different programming languages, which means there is more than one correct answer unless you get more specific.

Further, it's virtually irrelevant to Python programmers since the OO model there is "we're all consenting adults".

Have what down? You haven't even stated a well-formed question.

Re: Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

#13
post #6

I think it's hard to give answers that are both accurate and concise to some of these questions, without appending "in language ______" to them. In some languages, access control is a compiler feature and is actually strictly enforced. Objective-C has access control for instance variables, but not for messages, and the ivar access control can be circumvented via the runtime (to say nothing of -valueForKey:). "Private…

I think it's fair to say if you can answer clearly and concisely in any language at all, then you have demonstrated a good deal of domain knowledge. Enough to convince a recruiter that there may be a job for you somewhere. The exact language hardly matters.

Re: Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even so, most employers that we work with won't even consider job seekers who don't have this stuff down.

>won't even consider job seekers who don't have this stuff down That's not the point, it means different things to different programming languages, which means there is more than one correct answer unless you get more specific. Further, it's virtually irrelevant to Python programmers since the OO model there is "we're all consenting adults". Have what down? You haven't even stated a well-formed question.

Imagine you answered on the phone that your expertise is in python, where all members are virtual and public, visibility is only by convention, duck typing makes interfaces largely unnecessary and abstract classes only exist as a standard library feature to allow isinstance(variable, BaseClass) to work properly. If a recruiter declares that a failed answer then I would question their process, but it can be a good interview question so long as it lets you demonstrate deep understanding of your favorite OO language.

Re: Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

#17
I bet most people get the "protected" one wrong, because it's actually strictly less restrictive than package access in Java. That is, protected members can be accessed by anyone within your same package. Do you reject people for not knowing that any class in the same package can access protected members?

If so, you probably just weeded out a huge percentage of Java programmers.

Re: Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

#18
When you see all five questions together, it's obvious they're about Java (edit: or maybe C#, since the terminology is the same.) Taking them one by one in an interview, you'd have no way of knowing, so good luck on providing "accurate" answers.

Imagine if "What is an interface?" was the first question you were asked. That's so vague it's almost philosophical.

Finally, I'm really glad I've done enough Java programming to remember the answers to these questions. Apparently, if my work history had been a little different, I'd be unemployable.

Re: Unfortunately, we'll reject most software developer job applications.

#19
So I really don't want to work in an OO shop. I would far prefer to work in a dynamic or functional shop.

Answers there would look something like this:

Explain public.

N/A

Explain private.

N/A

Explain protected.

N/A

What is an abstract class?

N/A

What is an interface?

Ah, we get to something shared... A list of functions that can be applied to an instance of a type without raising an error.

The times I've used Perl, Python, Javascript, and Common Lisp all do not relate to public/private/protected/abstract base class. They have simply not been required to do the job, and I'm unsure whether they even carry the concepts with them without building an extension into the language. I'm fairly sure a MOP could use it if you really wanted.

So while this test might be great for C++/Java/C# hiring... I don't even bother asking these questions when I'm on a Python/Bash/Perl hiring team. They don't relate.

The questions aren't interesting. They can be Googled, and I would be brutally tempted to think better of someone if they stalled and I heard keys being whacked as they found the answers on Wikipedia or StackOverflow.

But, you know, maybe OO teams need their OO FizzBuzz. I can totally appreciate that, and wish SuperCoders all the best :-)

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