Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families • Hacker News Board

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#31

Post by badcppdev » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 2:27 PM UTC

ben_w wrote: post #21

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #5

Why would they keep it secret from the families and children unless it's doing something nefarious?

https://www.bristol.gov.uk/residents/social-care-and-health/... They're not keeping it secret. It's the same sort of thing as all the EULAs/T&Cs we have to click agree to: much too boring to pay attention to, unless it's a headline. That said: > How long we will keep your personal information? > We will hold this information for as long as it is needed, or if we are required to do so by law. In practice this means th…

You need to read up on your torts. Injury or harm done to a young person can result in a claim for compensation later in life. That's why paediatric insurance is so complicated.

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#32

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 2:29 PM UTC

swagempire wrote: post #24

samwillis wrote: post #15

I have a friend who has been the safeguarding lead in a school, it's a tough and emotional job with enormous responsibility. He's found it incredibly fulfilling, but I can only imagine what he has had to deal with based on the few hits we have heard. My understanding is that the teachers that take on these roles are incredibly well trained, understand the responsibility, and know how to be both discreet and keep thin…

What is a "safegaurding lead"? It sounds kind of creepy from your description.

[deleted]

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#33

Post by ndsipa_pomu » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 2:29 PM UTC

IggleSniggle wrote: post #25

vharuck wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Schools in my area need to know which kids are living in poverty because they send home backpacks of food with them over the summer. What's wrong with just asking the parents?

Not all parents will respond, and of those that do, not all parents respond honestly. But the child still needs to be fed, whether the parent thinks they need to be fed or not.

It shouldn't be the responsibility of teachers or the school to provide food, but if there's a real need, then why don't they offer the food to those that want it and just cut out the secret database crap?

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#34

Post by diogenes4 » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 2:30 PM UTC

badcppdev wrote: post #26

donatj wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you give someone a power, always consider that it will basically always be used in the worst imaginable way. Regardless of any and all lip service to the contrary.

Have you thought about the number of powers both large and small that are delegated so that society can operate.

If society is operating, it's not operating well.

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#35

Post by freeopinion » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 2:31 PM UTC

donatj wrote: post #12

robertlagrant wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a category error. The worst uses of surveillance in general do not apply to this case, unless someone tells us how it does.

When you give someone a power, always consider that it will basically always be used in the worst imaginable way. Regardless of any and all lip service to the contrary.

For example, if you allow ordinary people to operate heavy automobiles, somebody is going to use one to intentionally kill somebody else. Did you think about that before you unleashed millions of these killing machines?

I'm not excited about developments in Bristol, but introducing extreme paranoia isn't helpful. Just a low level of healthy paranoia is good enough.

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#36

Post by swayvil » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 2:31 PM UTC

We call it "right to privacy". But what if we call it "right to hide" or "right to lie" or "right to censor"? That certainly puts a different light on it.

Universal 24-7 communication about absolutely everything would be a very very good thing. Take our whole society up a level.

Except that we have these big predators lurking about.

So the problem isn't the privacy, it's the predators. Right?

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#37

Post by ndsipa_pomu » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 2:32 PM UTC

stainablesteel wrote: post #30

the article constantly mentions racism and i don't understand how racism fits into this picture i think when they write things like that it means "we don't mean to expose the racist behavior of certain black students when we spy on them through apps we force them to install", which is pretty crooked all around

> the article constantly mentions racism and i don't understand how racism fits into this picture

Some police are known to be racist, so if a certain officer gets it in their head to harass a nationality or ethnic group, then their unsubstantiated accusations would be entered into the database and this could then affect the families' chances of getting a decent education or indeed, the teachers may decide to not enter them into certain exams if they've been prejudiced by the data.

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#38

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 2:33 PM UTC

swagempire wrote: post #29

badcppdev wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the UK term for the person in any organisation that deals with vulnerable people (children, patients, disabled people, old people) that has the responsibility of taking any allegations, concerns, accusations and making sure they are dealt with properly. That means documenting, investigating, and escalating to the authorities.

Shouldn't that be a lawyer normally? It sounds like they have a great potential to violate human rights.

[deleted]

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#39

Post by notahacker » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 2:34 PM UTC

swagempire wrote: post #29

badcppdev wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the UK term for the person in any organisation that deals with vulnerable people (children, patients, disabled people, old people) that has the responsibility of taking any allegations, concerns, accusations and making sure they are dealt with properly. That means documenting, investigating, and escalating to the authorities.

Shouldn't that be a lawyer normally? It sounds like they have a great potential to violate human rights.

This may come as a surprise to you, but schools, community football clubs, nursing homes etc don't have full time lawyers in the UK. Someone has to decide when to call the police, when to call social services, when to [not] immediately alert parents, guardians of next or kin, when to seek further legal advice etc. And frankly the last person you'd want to be the main point of contact for vulnerable people dealing with sensitive issues is a lawyer whose job it is to minimise problems for the organisation (or maximise work for themselves...)

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#40

Post by mynameisvlad » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

swagempire wrote: post #29

badcppdev wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the UK term for the person in any organisation that deals with vulnerable people (children, patients, disabled people, old people) that has the responsibility of taking any allegations, concerns, accusations and making sure they are dealt with properly. That means documenting, investigating, and escalating to the authorities.

Shouldn't that be a lawyer normally? It sounds like they have a great potential to violate human rights.

I mean it just sounds like a formalized mandatory reporter to me.

That's pretty much what they're there for in the US as well.