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Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

theguardian.com

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Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#21

Post by ben_w »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #5

Why would they keep it secret from the families and children unless it's doing something nefarious?

https://www.bristol.gov.uk/residents/social-care-and-health/...

They're not keeping it secret. It's the same sort of thing as all the EULAs/T&Cs we have to click agree to: much too boring to pay attention to, unless it's a headline.

That said:

> How long we will keep your personal information?

> We will hold this information for as long as it is needed, or if we are required to do so by law. In practice this means that your personal information may be retained for the relevant period listed below:

> • Integrated family Support (1772), 75 years

- https://www.bristol.gov.uk/files/documents/5977-insight-bris...

How on Earth is 75 years a legitimate duration for any of this information?

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#22

Post by throwaway71271 »

robertlagrant wrote: post #14
donatj wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you give someone a power, always consider that it will basically always be used in the worst imaginable way. Regardless of any and all lip service to the contrary.

Yes, consider the power itself, not the category the power belongs to. If a school knows 2 extra things about you (on benefits; father in jail for child abuse), that's not the same as 24x7 video surveillance. Risk assess the reality, not the overarching category.

Why dont we just take all the children? Let the state raise them. Father was in jail, he should never see his children ever again. Mother was drunk, take the kids and lets sterlize the parents just in case.

I am making an extreme argument, there is obviously a line for CPS, but you have to remember that every system in the modern society is trying to be total. The police wants to stop crime, at all cost, if they could put is all in matrix like cells so we cant move they would. I will leave it to you to think what the ultimate goal of the education system is.

The only thing that stops systems from becoming total is our votes and also the fact that they are somewhat adversarial to each other e.g. if one becomes more total it consumes from the other system's power and so each systems fight for its life and multi dimensional predator/pray equilibrium is formed.

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#23

Post by vharuck »

merpnderp wrote: post #4

The title made it sound like the schools were installing malware on students' devices, but as far as I can tell this is just a central database bringing together data from different government agencies. I'm not sure I see the problem with schools getting an update that a kid was arrested by police or that their family is on food aid or something. Schools in my area need to know which kids are living in poverty becaus…

>Schools in my area need to know which kids are living in poverty because they send home backpacks of food with them over the summer.

What's wrong with just asking the parents?

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#24

Post by swagempire »

samwillis wrote: post #15

I have a friend who has been the safeguarding lead in a school, it's a tough and emotional job with enormous responsibility. He's found it incredibly fulfilling, but I can only imagine what he has had to deal with based on the few hits we have heard. My understanding is that the teachers that take on these roles are incredibly well trained, understand the responsibility, and know how to be both discreet and keep thin…

What is a "safegaurding lead"? It sounds kind of creepy from your description.

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#25

Post by IggleSniggle »

vharuck wrote: post #23
merpnderp wrote: post #4

The title made it sound like the schools were installing malware on students' devices, but as far as I can tell this is just a central database bringing together data from different government agencies. I'm not sure I see the problem with schools getting an update that a kid was arrested by police or that their family is on food aid or something. Schools in my area need to know which kids are living in poverty becaus…

>Schools in my area need to know which kids are living in poverty because they send home backpacks of food with them over the summer. What's wrong with just asking the parents?

Not all parents will respond, and of those that do, not all parents respond honestly. But the child still needs to be fed, whether the parent thinks they need to be fed or not.

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#26

Post by badcppdev »

donatj wrote: post #12
robertlagrant wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a category error. The worst uses of surveillance in general do not apply to this case, unless someone tells us how it does.

When you give someone a power, always consider that it will basically always be used in the worst imaginable way. Regardless of any and all lip service to the contrary.

Have you thought about the number of powers both large and small that are delegated so that society can operate.

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#27

Post by badcppdev »

swagempire wrote: post #24
samwillis wrote: post #15

I have a friend who has been the safeguarding lead in a school, it's a tough and emotional job with enormous responsibility. He's found it incredibly fulfilling, but I can only imagine what he has had to deal with based on the few hits we have heard. My understanding is that the teachers that take on these roles are incredibly well trained, understand the responsibility, and know how to be both discreet and keep thin…

What is a "safegaurding lead"? It sounds kind of creepy from your description.

It's the UK term for the person in any organisation that deals with vulnerable people (children, patients, disabled people, old people) that has the responsibility of taking any allegations, concerns, accusations and making sure they are dealt with properly. That means documenting, investigating, and escalating to the authorities.

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#28

Post by swagempire »

swagempire wrote: post #24
samwillis wrote: post #15

I have a friend who has been the safeguarding lead in a school, it's a tough and emotional job with enormous responsibility. He's found it incredibly fulfilling, but I can only imagine what he has had to deal with based on the few hits we have heard. My understanding is that the teachers that take on these roles are incredibly well trained, understand the responsibility, and know how to be both discreet and keep thin…

What is a "safegaurding lead"? It sounds kind of creepy from your description.

[flagged]

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#29

Post by swagempire »

badcppdev wrote: post #27
swagempire wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a "safegaurding lead"? It sounds kind of creepy from your description.

It's the UK term for the person in any organisation that deals with vulnerable people (children, patients, disabled people, old people) that has the responsibility of taking any allegations, concerns, accusations and making sure they are dealt with properly. That means documenting, investigating, and escalating to the authorities.

Shouldn't that be a lawyer normally? It sounds like they have a great potential to violate human rights.

Re: Call to shut down Bristol schools’ use of app to ‘monitor’ pupils and families

#30

Post by stainablesteel »

the article constantly mentions racism and i don't understand how racism fits into this picture

i think when they write things like that it means "we don't mean to expose the racist behavior of certain black students when we spy on them through apps we force them to install", which is pretty crooked all around

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