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Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

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Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#261

Post by dennis_jeeves2 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #248
adamwong246 wrote: post #53

“Only women, children, and dogs are loved unconditionally” ~ Chris Rock Lots of yakking it up about how sad men are but it's all so disingenuous. My experience leads to me to believe that the moment a man asks for help is the moment he has lost the respect of his peers and, should he be so lucky, his female partner. Evolutionarily, men are disposable, and the workplaces and dating arenas we must inhabit reinforce it…

> they care far more about what you could provide than how you feel. This is real, it does happen. But for the sake of anyone reading this, please be aware. There are plenty of women who are not like this . Finding them can feel overwhelming, but when you land the right one, it makes life so much better . I'm kidding, but only slightly, when I say this: I think the best advice for young men is to skip the dating scen…

[flagged]

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#263

Post by tw04 »

asking4fren wrote: post #154
tw04 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My experience leads to me to believe that the moment a man asks for help is the moment he has lost the respect of his peers and, should he be so lucky, his female partner. Honestly, it sounds like you need some new friends and to stop listening to Jordan Peterson. When I was going through a divorce, my closest friends were there day or night to take a call and let me vent. Heck my current wife actually was a soundin…

>Honestly, it sounds like you need some new friends and to stop listening to Jordan Peterson. And what about those who experience this effect, and have always actively avoided Peterson and his ilk? When you find out rumours are spreading about you after you've opened up, you can separate yourself from that community, but where does that leave a person? What do you think happens when someone tries to join a new commun…

I assume from the "rumors are spreading" you're talking about a high school situation - in which case that'll stop pretty quickly when you get to college (or full time work), so just tough it out.

If you're a grown adult and have rumors following you around, just find a new friends group. If your town is so small that you can't escape that, seriously just move? If it's a job and the culture is gossip, it's probably time to just find a new job.

I get that uprooting your whole life is a VERY BIG DEAL but you only live once. There's no way you're ever going to be happy dealing with constant gossip, and that isn't normal. That's a very, very abnormal situation you're in if you're a grown adult.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#264

Post by asking4fren »

rootusrootus wrote: post #250
asking4fren wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Honestly, it sounds like you need some new friends and to stop listening to Jordan Peterson. And what about those who experience this effect, and have always actively avoided Peterson and his ilk? When you find out rumours are spreading about you after you've opened up, you can separate yourself from that community, but where does that leave a person? What do you think happens when someone tries to join a new commun…

It's much easier said than done, but get the hell away. So far away that your past relationships cannot in any way taint your future ones. Move to a new job, new city preferably. Rebuild your friend network. I've been lucky for the most part with good friends, but periodically rebooting your life situation has other benefits too. I recommend it heartily, if you're in a position to do so. Keep your old friends if they…

That's been my approach but still, look at that advice and think about what it says about a society that necessitates it.

For both obvious and non-obvious reasons, I don't want to get into specifics in order to provide an existence proof that this is a problem, but consider that switching jobs/moving city/rebuilding a social network is something that depends a great deal on having resources available to do that with, not having obligations preventing that, having the means to evade the pervasive social media that encourages exactly the sort of “reconnection” that is anathema to the task.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#265

Post by xethos »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #260
iteratethis wrote: post #253

Recently the CDC shared an analysis on suicide statistics. As one might expect, they concluded that there's disparities between demographics. And so they dutifully listed them: LGBTQ+, indigenous people, vets, various other groups. Except for that one stat staring them in the face. The chart to crush all other charts. MEN. Whom commit suicide at a rate of 5x compared to women, and rising. That chart was not included…

>The suicide rate among males in 2021 was approximately four times higher than the rate among females. Males make up 50% of the population but nearly 80% of suicides. https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/suicide-data-statistics.html It appears that your comment is false?

Is it possible social isolation due to the global pandemic affected these stats in the last two years?

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#266

Post by snapplebobapple »

mwbajor wrote: post #207
LeroyRaz wrote: post #184

Richard Reeves is originally from the left, and there is a podcast interview of him by Ezra Klein (titled "the boys are not alright"). In the interview he describes how he was drawn to feminism and looking at gender inequality, and by looking at the data became convinced that boys and men were a neglected cause. He was then frustrated as other researchers and policy people had no interest in that form of inequality.…

Can we have an example of toxic masculinity? I've never once received a real definition in a debate like this and when I'm close to it, the other side tries to make it sound like they are sympathetic to toxic masculinity. For example, I've had it told to me that I shouldnt have my son help me with changing my car's oil because thats putting some sort of burden on him at an early age. Does this sound like something a…

When all the men got together and voted for women to also have the vote, that was toxic masculinity at work. (this is a joke, but also not really. Women shifting the political map towards larger government and more socialism seems to be the root of most of our current problems. It's kind of a big problem because women should very clearly be allowed to vote but at the same time I don't know how to reconcile that with the also very clear harm it is causing)

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#267

Post by RickJWagner »

The left has enough problems to deal with.

Numerous studies have shown that liberals have higher rates of depression and worse mental health in general compared to people with more conservative views. For the biggest bang for the buck, this is the place to look for improvement.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#268

Post by snapplebobapple »

conception wrote: post #243
mwbajor wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we have an example of toxic masculinity? I've never once received a real definition in a debate like this and when I'm close to it, the other side tries to make it sound like they are sympathetic to toxic masculinity. For example, I've had it told to me that I shouldnt have my son help me with changing my car's oil because thats putting some sort of burden on him at an early age. Does this sound like something a…

“Why are you crying?!? Real men don’t cry!”

That's just the crass version of the actually good advice that goes as follows: Don't react to your emotions, instead notice your emotions wash over you, identify the why and respond rationally instead of emotionally to the why. It's basically good advice given in the worst possible way with deceptive context

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#269

Post by rootusrootus »

asking4fren wrote: post #264
rootusrootus wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's much easier said than done, but get the hell away. So far away that your past relationships cannot in any way taint your future ones. Move to a new job, new city preferably. Rebuild your friend network. I've been lucky for the most part with good friends, but periodically rebooting your life situation has other benefits too. I recommend it heartily, if you're in a position to do so. Keep your old friends if they…

That's been my approach but still, look at that advice and think about what it says about a society that necessitates it. For both obvious and non-obvious reasons, I don't want to get into specifics in order to provide an existence proof that this is a problem, but consider that switching jobs/moving city/rebuilding a social network is something that depends a great deal on having resources available to do that with,…

Oh, I 100% agree. It's not feasible in a lot of situations, arguably in the vast majority of cases people are stuck. And even when it works, there are bound to be complications.

But I do recommend it when appropriate and feasible. Some of the best changes I've made to my life came because I was able to shake things up and go somewhere with no ruts.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#270

Post by jmye »

snapplebobapple wrote: post #268
conception wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Why are you crying?!? Real men don’t cry!”

That's just the crass version of the actually good advice that goes as follows: Don't react to your emotions, instead notice your emotions wash over you, identify the why and respond rationally instead of emotionally to the why. It's basically good advice given in the worst possible way with deceptive context

Why is that good advice? If my father dies, why is it bad to be sad about it? Why is it wrong to cry when I’m sad?

I think you’re completely off base in trying to make “respond rationally and with no emotion, ever” a universal rule, especially with regards to interacting with other people. It’s weird and robotic.

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