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Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

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Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#251

Post by foogazi »

Jensson wrote: post #185
kamray23 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Wage stagnation, gender roles which become increasingly impossible to meet in the modern world, the price of property, commuter town hell, social alienation, lack of third places, even toxic masculinity, all of these are conversations about things that hurt men. And with gender roles expected of men, to be economically successful, to look a certain way and wear certain things and have certain kinds of jobs and…

> Maybe don't stick your head in the sand the moment someone says "toxic masculinity". It means something which hurts men, too. The left however tends to shun the fact that a lot of the toxic masculinity comes from women and their expectations on men and boys. There isn't anything men can do to stop toxic masculinity until women stops propagating it, and the left sees no problem with women and teachers propagating to…

This comment seems way off

For example women and queer in armed forces are routinely mocked by the right as feminization and weakening of the military

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#252

Post by Jensson »

foogazi wrote: post #233
Tommstein wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can we forget this classic: "Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat." - Hillary Clinton Men: not even the primary victims of their own gruesome battlefield deaths.

I get the point you are trying to make but who fights the wars ?

[flagged]

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#253

Post by iteratethis »

Recently the CDC shared an analysis on suicide statistics.

As one might expect, they concluded that there's disparities between demographics. And so they dutifully listed them: LGBTQ+, indigenous people, vets, various other groups.

Except for that one stat staring them in the face. The chart to crush all other charts. MEN. Whom commit suicide at a rate of 5x compared to women, and rising.

That chart was not included nor was even the word "men".

Which perfectly fits the totem pole of victim hierarchy in modern identity politics. Where men do not even exist, or only as oppressors.

Men killing themselves from despair does not fit the narrative. A micro aggression towards a minority though is like a Waterloo moment.

There's no first principles. No objectivity. No proportionality. Only narratives.

This Richard Reeves guy is one few people amidst progressives getting it on the agenda. Read his articles and note how every other paragraph he's almost apologizing to his peers for caring about men at all, as if they're about to eat him alive.

Don't get me wrong. Nobody ever cared about men. Neither men nor women do. Disposable utilities. But the problems and its harmful outcomes are growing.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#254

Post by iteratethis »

Tommstein wrote: post #176
adamwong246 wrote: post #53

“Only women, children, and dogs are loved unconditionally” ~ Chris Rock Lots of yakking it up about how sad men are but it's all so disingenuous. My experience leads to me to believe that the moment a man asks for help is the moment he has lost the respect of his peers and, should he be so lucky, his female partner. Evolutionarily, men are disposable, and the workplaces and dating arenas we must inhabit reinforce it…

How can we forget this classic: "Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat." - Hillary Clinton Men: not even the primary victims of their own gruesome battlefield deaths.

Similar to the "UN journalists" publication that shared that 20% of journalists killed were women, and that women should stop being targeted.

Blatantly ignoring the 80% of men of course.

Not to mention, who are they talking to anyway? Do you think people killing journalists will now say: OK, sorry, I'll stop. Or maybe pick only men?

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#255

Post by iteratethis »

NickC25 wrote: post #103

Honestly, although I don't agree with everything the article says, it does have a very good point. Trump won in 2016 due to populism, on the belief that the American male was forgotten and left behind. As too, was rural America. The left could easily win election after election by coming out and saying "yeah, we've done a lot for women, for people of color, for sexual minorities, etc...but here's a bunch of things we…

[flagged]

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#256

Post by Klonoar »

bradlys wrote: post #117

People here are mentioning that “the left” (ambiguous as to what that is) does talk about men’s issues. They then cite an article or two. I’m not sure if one article every three to six months by some publication is really “talking” about it. For the severity of issues that men are facing, it is not getting anywhere near the coverage that it needs to be fixed. They barely scratched the surface with this article and it…

“Talk therapists” will literally do what you want them to do, including “problem solving”. You might need to go through a few to find your ideal therapist - and yeah, we could use more male therapists - but the idea that talk therapy is broken for men is just out there.

I’ve dealt with plenty of therapists who ask how I want to work, then they slot in around that. If I tell them that just talking about something isn’t working, they almost always move to “okay, well what can we do about this?”.

Don’t ever go into a therapy session without knowing what you’re trying to do.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#257

Post by Grum9 »

foogazi wrote: post #233
Tommstein wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can we forget this classic: "Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat." - Hillary Clinton Men: not even the primary victims of their own gruesome battlefield deaths.

I get the point you are trying to make but who fights the wars ?

[dead]

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#258

Post by Grum9 »

tw04 wrote: post #79
adamwong246 wrote: post #53

“Only women, children, and dogs are loved unconditionally” ~ Chris Rock Lots of yakking it up about how sad men are but it's all so disingenuous. My experience leads to me to believe that the moment a man asks for help is the moment he has lost the respect of his peers and, should he be so lucky, his female partner. Evolutionarily, men are disposable, and the workplaces and dating arenas we must inhabit reinforce it…

>My experience leads to me to believe that the moment a man asks for help is the moment he has lost the respect of his peers and, should he be so lucky, his female partner. Honestly, it sounds like you need some new friends and to stop listening to Jordan Peterson. When I was going through a divorce, my closest friends were there day or night to take a call and let me vent. Heck my current wife actually was a soundin…

[dead]

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#259

Post by BossHogg »

LeroyRaz wrote: post #184

Richard Reeves is originally from the left, and there is a podcast interview of him by Ezra Klein (titled "the boys are not alright"). In the interview he describes how he was drawn to feminism and looking at gender inequality, and by looking at the data became convinced that boys and men were a neglected cause. He was then frustrated as other researchers and policy people had no interest in that form of inequality.…

> longer jail for the same crime, higher rates of homelessness, higher rates of suicide, lower educational outcomes, shorter life spans, less friends on average, ...

And outcomes are worse for Black men in almost all categories and have been so for some time. Yet the response to negative outcomes for Black people is to blame "black culture." Yet there's no blaming of white culture. Instead this is a crisis we have to do something about. C.f. crack vs fentanyl epidemics.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#260

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

iteratethis wrote: post #253

Recently the CDC shared an analysis on suicide statistics. As one might expect, they concluded that there's disparities between demographics. And so they dutifully listed them: LGBTQ+, indigenous people, vets, various other groups. Except for that one stat staring them in the face. The chart to crush all other charts. MEN. Whom commit suicide at a rate of 5x compared to women, and rising. That chart was not included…

>The suicide rate among males in 2021 was approximately four times higher than the rate among females. Males make up 50% of the population but nearly 80% of suicides.

https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/suicide-data-statistics.html

It appears that your comment is false?

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