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U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

science.org

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Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#191

Post by bemusedthrow75 »

archsurface wrote: post #182
bemusedthrow75 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did I say "never joining"? I said it was not imminent (it isn't) or guaranteed (and it isn't). Nobody lied to Turkey. They know there are economic, political, social etc. targets that they have to meet before they progress to EU membership. I've been a candidate for lots of things I didn't get. Haven't you? They first applied in 1987, 29 years before the Brexit vote. It has been more than seven years since that vote.…

Did the remain campaign point it out?

They did, repeatedly, at the time.

And the scurrilousness of the leaflet was pointed out, too.

But xenophobia sells.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#192

Post by rwmj »

blibble wrote: post #166
rwmj wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Groupings of countries have great leverage over single countries, who knew!

in this case: as a result of the conflict the UK received a better deal on the clawback terms and achieved exactly what it wanted on the NI border (which the EU had formerly said was impossible) so I'm not sure that reality reflects your point

After being out for 2 years while the EU held us to terms of the TCA. And if you think literally putting a border between two parts of the UK while all our agricultural goods are held up being inspected when going to the EU is a good outcome, I don't know what you'd think is a bad outcome.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#193

Post by bemusedthrow75 »

logifail wrote: post #163
bemusedthrow75 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my other reply about Turkey being "set to join" the EU. Turkey has never been "set to join" the EU. They'd like to join, sure. There are significant criteria they would need to fill to join, and everyone knows they won't do it any time soon; they were going backwards on some at the time of the campaign and are arguably further back eight years on. If Turkey met all the criteria they'd be a perfectly viable member…

> There are significant criteria they would need to fill to join, and everyone knows they won't do it any time soon; they were going backwards on some at the time of the campaign and are arguably further back eight years on. https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-p... "On 13 December 1999 the Helsinki European Council adopted the Commission proposal to grant Turkey the status of an applicant for E…

It actually goes back further than that -- they wanted to join the EEC in '87.

36 years. This is actually higher than the median age of Turkey's population.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#194

Post by simonh »

swores wrote: post #117
FiniteField wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This whole brexit thing happened by ignoring researchers and listening to whoever spoke louder :) When it goes the way someone wants they call that "democracy" ;)

Democracy isn't a magical word that automatically makes every decision made democratically good, nor does it stop being democracy if people are lied to and tricked into voting against their own interests.

Remainer here, but we lost fair and square. Politicians and campaigners definitely have a responsibility to be honest, but equally the electorate have a responsibility to inform themselves and make a reasonable judgement on the arguments made to them. Correcting for mistakes is what new elections are for.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#195

Post by rwmj »

archsurface wrote: post #182
bemusedthrow75 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did I say "never joining"? I said it was not imminent (it isn't) or guaranteed (and it isn't). Nobody lied to Turkey. They know there are economic, political, social etc. targets that they have to meet before they progress to EU membership. I've been a candidate for lots of things I didn't get. Haven't you? They first applied in 1987, 29 years before the Brexit vote. It has been more than seven years since that vote.…

Did the remain campaign point it out?

It was the pointing out which was the problem, as it brought prominence to the lie. There were plenty of other lies too, the one about NHS funding was especially egregious.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#196

Post by nvm0n2 »

bemusedthrow75 wrote: post #190
nvm0n2 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rejoining the exact same framework would mean rejoining the EU, wouldn't it? Horizon isn't the whole shebang and was never the parts that people had problems with. It's really not hard to understand this, unless you're trying not to!

This is a weird, lazy, bad-faith mischaracterisation of what I said. Horizon is a framework. We rejoined it. End of argument.

Same back to you! You're totally misrepresenting what this is all about.

It's extremely clear what's meant here: the EU is a big thing with problematic parts, and parts that are OK. Horizon is OK and uncontroversial. The UK wanted the useful low risk collaborations without the dangerous lets-unify-Europe-into-a-megastate parts, and that is what is now happening. The Leavers said this could be done, the Remainers said it was all or nothing, the Leavers are being steadily proven correct.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#197

Post by alex201 »

Brilliant! After years of delay and uncertainty, €2.6 billion per year to regain access to a program they were once part of? Who needs that extra money for healthcare, education, or infrastructure anyway? Is this a hint that someone's tail is between her legs and wants another change?

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#198

Post by blibble »

rwmj wrote: post #192
blibble wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in this case: as a result of the conflict the UK received a better deal on the clawback terms and achieved exactly what it wanted on the NI border (which the EU had formerly said was impossible) so I'm not sure that reality reflects your point

After being out for 2 years while the EU held us to terms of the TCA. And if you think literally putting a border between two parts of the UK while all our agricultural goods are held up being inspected when going to the EU is a good outcome, I don't know what you'd think is a bad outcome.

> I don't know what you'd think is a bad outcome.

that's an easy one, remaining in the EU

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#199

Post by bemusedthrow75 »

nvm0n2 wrote: post #196
bemusedthrow75 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a weird, lazy, bad-faith mischaracterisation of what I said. Horizon is a framework. We rejoined it. End of argument.

Same back to you! You're totally misrepresenting what this is all about. It's extremely clear what's meant here: the EU is a big thing with problematic parts, and parts that are OK. Horizon is OK and uncontroversial. The UK wanted the useful low risk collaborations without the dangerous lets-unify-Europe-into-a-megastate parts, and that is what is now happening. The Leavers said this could be done, the Remainers said…

> the Leavers are being steadily proven correct.

Now this is delusional. The "prime Leaver", Nigel Farage, thinks Brexit has failed and has said so. The press is full of Leavers saying the country is broken right now.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#200

Post by okeuro49 »

alex201 wrote: post #197

Brilliant! After years of delay and uncertainty, €2.6 billion per year to regain access to a program they were once part of? Who needs that extra money for healthcare, education, or infrastructure anyway? Is this a hint that someone's tail is between her legs and wants another change?

> €2.6 billion per year to regain access to a program they were once part of?

You always had to pay, before Brexit it was in the form of the EU budget contribution.

The UK was also a net contributor.

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