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U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

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Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#71

Post by physicsguy »

PedroBatista wrote: post #69

This is "great news" for researchers and UK universities in particular but this is also "terrible news" because it's yet another instance of special treatment that weakens the overall system. What I mean by that it's the notion of "we can be out while still be kinda in". No system can survive for long if this is widespread. I get most of the UK scientific community was against Brexit, but the truth is the majority vo…

Eh? The UK has 'rejoined' as an associate member, in the same way that a number of other countries are associate members.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#72

Post by robertlagrant »

neel_k wrote: post #55
mytailorisrich wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If being part of the scheme suddenly makes everything possible then I'd say the system is indeed designed to make things difficult for those not part of the scheme... Let's not kid ourselves, this is geopolitics and influence, not just generous cooperation. Edit: Very strange to observe the reactions to my comment... many of you seem have a knee-jerk, black and white, if not naive, reaction to Brexit and the EU. Both…

Let's translate your comment from scientific research to driving: > If driving on the road suddenly makes car trips possible, then I'd say that the road is indeed designed to make things more difficult for those not driving on the road. This is obviously silly, because the road makes car travel easier, not harder. Schemes like Horizon Europe make scientific research easier in similar ways. For funding agencies to giv…

> Schemes like Horizon Europe make scientific research easier in similar ways.

Roads allow any vehicle anyone built to work on them. Having EU-specific roads that cars built in the EU can easily drive on, while other cars require significant modification, would be a better analogy.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#73

Post by physicsguy »

tetris11 wrote: post #2

This is great news. I remember when Brexit was announced in my last lab, and at first everything seemed okay, but as the months went on I saw more professor bashing heads or colluding to get those rare precious grants as it became clear that the well was drying up.

My former PhD supervisor almost immediately started looking and returned to Germany, and most of the other staff in the department who were European have since left to go back to continental Europe. It was such an own goal.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#74

Post by PedroBatista »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #30
kramerger wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because research projects are multinational collaborations. How do you get your brightest to stay in UK (or come here from other places) if all your research are isolated to your island??

They are isolated because that scheme is designed to isolate non-members. But nothing prevents the UK from being part of international collaborations in general.

The scheme is designed to help members, the scheme doesn't care about non-members just like you don't care about non-customers or people you don't know exist.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#76

Post by concordDance »

PedroBatista wrote: post #69

This is "great news" for researchers and UK universities in particular but this is also "terrible news" because it's yet another instance of special treatment that weakens the overall system. What I mean by that it's the notion of "we can be out while still be kinda in". No system can survive for long if this is widespread. I get most of the UK scientific community was against Brexit, but the truth is the majority vo…

I think the EU can survive just fine with associate members and similar non-full members who do things like pooled science funding.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#77

Post by thorin »

arrowsmith wrote: post #54
tokai wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have any data on that? Reading reports on European research output UK is nothing special. Edit: those corrupt uni ranking lists mean nothing.

According to the US News "Best Global Universities" report [0], which ranks universities for their "academic research performance and their global and regional reputations", the UK has 4 universities (Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, Imperial) in the global top 20. The rest of Europe has zero. Alternatively, the UK has 6 universities in the global top 40, while the rest of Europe has two (one in the EU, one in Switzerland.) T…

Correct! Oxford was founded in the 11th century, with Cambridge lagging behind and not getting started until around 1200.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#78

Post by smackay »

physicsguy wrote: post #71
PedroBatista wrote: post #69

This is "great news" for researchers and UK universities in particular but this is also "terrible news" because it's yet another instance of special treatment that weakens the overall system. What I mean by that it's the notion of "we can be out while still be kinda in". No system can survive for long if this is widespread. I get most of the UK scientific community was against Brexit, but the truth is the majority vo…

Eh? The UK has 'rejoined' as an associate member, in the same way that a number of other countries are associate members.

Here is a list of associate members, https://ec.europa.eu/info/funding-tenders/opportunities/docs... which also lays out some of the terms.

If you scroll down there's a list of countries which can participate and who are automatically eligible to apply for funding too. So the EU, at least bits of it, despite all the talk of gardens and jungles, is still a force for good in the world.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#79

Post by bluehatbrit »

nairboon wrote: post #75

The EU still keeps science as a hostage for political games. Think about, who looses when you prevent science from happening? All of society. This is very self-destructive.

To be fair, the offer to rejoin Horizon has been on the table to the UK for a long time now. The UK government have been the ones dragging their heels on actually doing the work to kick off that process. Scientists like Sir Paul Nurse have been very outspoken for several years about this. That's not to say there aren't failings in the EU, there definitely are, but this is heavily on the UK.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#80

Post by blibble »

notahacker wrote: post #34
O_nlogn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I voted to remain, but this is a great example of misleading/fear mongering by the remain campaign. They very vocally claimed that all the "good bits" of the EU cooperation would be permanently ended by leaving the Union. As evidenced by this news and others, that is untrue. There is clearly room for close cooperation in many areas without surrendering sovereign control over your nation.

No, they correctly predicted that the research funding was one of the things the government would kibosh with its "not paying the EU a penny" dick-waving, which is what happened. The fact we can later renegotiate access to a particular programme on the same basis as NZ doesn't mean we're getting access to other EU perks like free healthcare on holiday or the right to live in Spain, or that London hasn't fallen behind…

> No, they correctly predicted that the research funding was one of the things the government would kibosh with its "not paying the EU a penny" dick-waving, which is what happened.

this couldn't be more inaccurate

Boris Johnson negotiated as part of the brexit treaty to pay in, in the normal proportion

the EU even says as much on its FAQ page

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