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The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

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Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#61
post #51
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my building, there are 40 units... and 6 parking places in the basement. Most of the city is this way. Street side parking is the only way to go. TBH I prefer trees and grass over parking lots. I would not change it.

> I prefer trees and grass over parking lots I don't see a meaningful distinction between a consolidated parking lot and one that's distributed along the side of the road when it comes to tree and grass cover. For dense urban situations car parking buildings allow more than either surface lots or surface street parking.

Nearly half of parking lots' space a dedicated to move in and out. That space isn't needed with street parking because the street itself accomplish this function.

Parking lots are mostly used only half of the day and empty otherwise, because typically people drive their car around in a few different parking lots. Streets are useful all day long.

I'm unconvinced removing street parking would allow for smaller streets because that space is also used for bus stops and snow management in winter. Chance are street parking don't take place in itself but merely maximize usage of space that would be used up by the streets anyway.

I don't think we need private parking buildings to park our private cars when not in use, ie, most of the time. We need fewer, always in use, public cars to drive on our already public roads.

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#62
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really want to know what 5D chess went on to make put "livable cities" and "urban planning" on the truther, red-pilled, plandemic, crowds hit list. It is something that should be examined and critically discussed thats not what i'm talking about I'm talking about how suddenly people who have never so much as listened to an episode of 99PI before or showen any interest are suddenly passionately saying livable cities…

are suddenly passionately saying livable cities are a way to control us. Look at what the government and Big Tech are doing. There are constant articles here being posted about surveillance, loss of privacy, etc. It's a whole lot easier to control the population when you gradually make it harder for them to travel unhindered and untracked. Chickens in a factory farm can be described as being in "livable" conditions.…

[deleted]

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#63
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really want to know what 5D chess went on to make put "livable cities" and "urban planning" on the truther, red-pilled, plandemic, crowds hit list. It is something that should be examined and critically discussed thats not what i'm talking about I'm talking about how suddenly people who have never so much as listened to an episode of 99PI before or showen any interest are suddenly passionately saying livable cities…

are suddenly passionately saying livable cities are a way to control us. Look at what the government and Big Tech are doing. There are constant articles here being posted about surveillance, loss of privacy, etc. It's a whole lot easier to control the population when you gradually make it harder for them to travel unhindered and untracked. Chickens in a factory farm can be described as being in "livable" conditions.…

Do you consider bike centric cities like Copenhagen and Amsterdam not free?

The concept of "cars == freedom" is completely absurd to me. The mode of transport that has a unique identifier printed on it, that you need a licence to drive that can be revoked, that you have to pay the government to use, is considered the beacon of free and open transport.

In fact, many car centric city designs force you to own a car which seems like the opposite of freedom.

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#64
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really want to know what 5D chess went on to make put "livable cities" and "urban planning" on the truther, red-pilled, plandemic, crowds hit list. It is something that should be examined and critically discussed thats not what i'm talking about I'm talking about how suddenly people who have never so much as listened to an episode of 99PI before or showen any interest are suddenly passionately saying livable cities…

are suddenly passionately saying livable cities are a way to control us. Look at what the government and Big Tech are doing. There are constant articles here being posted about surveillance, loss of privacy, etc. It's a whole lot easier to control the population when you gradually make it harder for them to travel unhindered and untracked. Chickens in a factory farm can be described as being in "livable" conditions.…

But how is advocating having a supermarket within walk-able distance from your home the same thing as making it hard to travel untracked?

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#65
post #23

Sometimes when I hear discussions like this, I can't help but think back to several places I've lived or stayed where using a car was not possible. It sucked. Yes, living in the exact center of a bustling city should be efficient - you should be able to walk everywhere for all your needs and it should be efficient. But the reality was that you couldn't and it wasn't. It took a tremendous toll on your time and the eff…

> Has anyone moved from a semi-dense area where just about anything was within a 10 minute drive, to a situation where they didn't use a car and still lived a decent efficient life?

I used to live in Sante Fe, New Mexico in the US. The city was founded in 1610. The city core for the first 300 years was of course walkable, but the last grocery store downtown closed around 2000 so it's a mile walk to the nearest store (biking isn't really an option in Santa Fe).

When I lived there the population was about 65K. I lived in a post-war suburb about a 30 minute walk from the center of town. When built it was on the outskirts of town, connected to downtown via a gravel road. It's all paved now, and a great place to live with a car as just about everything was a 10 minute drive away (though I would need to pay for parking downtown).

The city extends many miles away from the center of town. Going along Cerrillos Road you can see the effect of zoning changes over time. In the center parking is very tight. Further out there are stores with a few parking spots, until you get to the more modern big box stores surrounded by a sea of parking.

After I moved away I came back for a month and tried living without a car. I chose the very best rental location I could, about 13 minute walk to the center of town. While I managed, it required a lot of walking to get to the places I wanted to visit, "a tremendous toll on [my] time" as you say". Santa Fe does have a bus service, but running once per hour and only a few routes. I would not have lived without a car long-term.

I now live in Trollhättan, Sweden, population 60K. While people have lived here for a long time, it didn't become a city proper until a bit over 100 years ago. Sweden was a pretty poor country and it wasn't until the post-war era that people could afford cars. The modern city core was built before widespread car ownership. The apartment building I live in was built around 1960. It's literally on Main Street ("Storgatan" in Swedish). There are two grocery stores in the city center, plus a few others within a mile radius. Both kids (ages 4 and 6) walk to school, which are 3/4 mile away.

The city library, our medical center, the dentist, bank, and more are all within 1/2 mile. That option was not possible in Santa Fe. I had to do a 10 minute drive.

Sweden has become a wealthy country and many Swedes have a single family home with one or two cars. Trollhättan has a lot of suburbs which are not as central as where we live. But they do have frequent bus service with a good network. During peak time I think some of the lines run at 10 minute headways. The regular public busses are also used to carry kids to/from school - Sweden doesn't have dedicated school busses.

We also have big box stores, about 3 miles from where I live, surrounded by a sea of parking. And I can see how it's drawing stores away from the center of town. But unlike Santa Fe, in Trollhättan I can get on the bus (2 blocks away), get a direct bus to the complex, and be dropped off in the middle of the complex area. And those stores are mostly side-by-side and walkable, not separate islands in the sea. See https://www.google.com/maps/place/Överby/@58.313516,12.29464... .

We've lived here now for 10 years, without a car, and I think it's a decent efficient life.

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#66
post #23

Sometimes when I hear discussions like this, I can't help but think back to several places I've lived or stayed where using a car was not possible. It sucked. Yes, living in the exact center of a bustling city should be efficient - you should be able to walk everywhere for all your needs and it should be efficient. But the reality was that you couldn't and it wasn't. It took a tremendous toll on your time and the eff…

I think "Just about anything" within a 10 minute drive is probably not a carefully considered standard. Can you name a specific place in which you think this standard obtains? I think the only way to think objectively about this sort of thing is with a very careful analytical framework. Think about the amenities you need, and how you acquire them, and then really -measure-, rather than just "think back" about the bur…

I can name one: a house at Monterey Place, Santa Fe, New Mexico, US

According to Google Maps it's no more than 10 minutes to any edge of the city. It's also near stores and a rail station with service to Albuquerque.

While I lived north-east of there, most places I went to in Santa Fe were within a 10 minute drive of where I lived. I rarely went to the SW corner of town.

I worked from home.

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#67

These maps provide graphic evidence of how parking lots “eat” U.S. cities: https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/parking-lots-eat-american-... America has paid a steep price for parking: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36197206 The force that shapes everything around us: Parking: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36758355 Parking Laws Are Strangling America: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUNXFHpUhu8 Austin Prep…

How much of that is free though? Especially in the urban areas, parking is very expensive and I assume the city (and people) benefit.

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#68

These maps provide graphic evidence of how parking lots “eat” U.S. cities: https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/parking-lots-eat-american-... America has paid a steep price for parking: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36197206 The force that shapes everything around us: Parking: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36758355 Parking Laws Are Strangling America: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUNXFHpUhu8 Austin Prep…

How much of that is free though? Especially in the urban areas, parking is very expensive and I assume the city (and people) benefit.

Cities usually spend a lot more to provide that parking than they make back.

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#69
post #23

Sometimes when I hear discussions like this, I can't help but think back to several places I've lived or stayed where using a car was not possible. It sucked. Yes, living in the exact center of a bustling city should be efficient - you should be able to walk everywhere for all your needs and it should be efficient. But the reality was that you couldn't and it wasn't. It took a tremendous toll on your time and the eff…

Yes, I moved from a car-centric place to Stockholm and having a car here is a luxury (mostly because parking is prohibitively expensive) and most people don't. Helps that the public transport is really good, even people who own cars they often use it only during weekends. Supermarkets are present in pretty much every single station so you just stop by when commuting and make more frequent visits but buying less items on each visit.

People who live far away from metro/train stations (where parking is actually affordable, or free if they live in a house with a personal garage) usually just drive to the station and then board a train when commuting. Taking the train is faster than the car.

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#70
post #34

[flagged]

I really want to know what 5D chess went on to make put "livable cities" and "urban planning" on the truther, red-pilled, plandemic, crowds hit list. It is something that should be examined and critically discussed thats not what i'm talking about I'm talking about how suddenly people who have never so much as listened to an episode of 99PI before or showen any interest are suddenly passionately saying livable cities…

It's not going to be true for every conspiracy or every conspiracy theorist, but like most things in the US you can connect a lot of dots with racism.

In the Robert Moses era mass transit was destroyed because it benefited poor African American communities, and highways were put down to tear apart their neighborhoods. Today, people use "urban" as a dog whistle for "black".

People decided the pandemic was no big deal and we should just let it rip in the US the moment early data showed it affected African Americans and other minorities more than whites.

It may not be the true explanation all of the time, but if you ask yourself if there could be a racist motivation for adopting a particular set of odd views, it's amazing how easy it is to connect the dots.

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