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Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

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Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#81

Post by hutzlibu »

drone wrote: post #55
dudeofea wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why not plant other species to out-compete the invasive ones? why do we need to perform chemotherapy on our forests?

Only one of the trees I listed was invasive, the others are opportunistic natives to their regions that will outgrow everything else. The nice "diverse" forest you're thinking of in your mind took a long time to become that way, the normal state of nature is to not create a perfect balance out of the gate, but for constant competition and regularly have to cycle through multiple iterations of configuration which are,…

Where I live in germany, there used to be extensive spruce monocultures forests everywhere.

They are mostly chopped down now and replaced with a mixed young forest, all without herbicides. (But with some planted trees, cleansing and fences to protect the young forest from deers) So after 15 years they surely are not comparible to old grown forests, but they are very diverse and alive. So I strongly question the assumption that herbicides are necessary or beneficial to create a diverse forest.

Most of the dominating species in the first years will be (were) replaced by something else eventually.

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#82

Post by mvdtnz »

myshpa wrote: post #77
mvdtnz wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to prioritise speedy regeneration then this is not the best approach. Nature is incredibly effective in the slow and steady mode of operation but to maximise efficiency you need to be more deliberate.

This method is known as "close planting" or "high-density planting". It's frequently employed in regeneration projects, such as the Green Great Wall in China. Syntropic agriculture, as seen in the video I've posted, and Miyawaki forests also use this approach. Akira Miyawaki developed a variant of this method, which involves planting a variety of native species in close proximity. The idea is that the trees compete f…

Did you even read your own links? They are carefully preparing soil and planting saplings, not randomly scattering seeds. The exact opposite of what gp is suggesting. They are planting in an intentional manner exactly as I said.

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#83

Post by screye »

atourgates wrote: post #25

I did a quick look to see if this only worked in tropical forests, or if this would be true in, say, Western North American forests. I didn't really find an answer. A study[1] in Virgina found that planting multiple varieties of trees was beneficial because it allowed the variety that was most suitable for that location to thrive, and survive problems that might affect other varieties. A study[2] in Washington State…

I can see benefits tied to wildfire R0 (in infectivity terms). A few fire resistant plants might play a role in decelerating the rate of wildfire spread and limit scope of damage.

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#84

Post by myshpa »

mvdtnz wrote: post #82
myshpa wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This method is known as "close planting" or "high-density planting". It's frequently employed in regeneration projects, such as the Green Great Wall in China. Syntropic agriculture, as seen in the video I've posted, and Miyawaki forests also use this approach. Akira Miyawaki developed a variant of this method, which involves planting a variety of native species in close proximity. The idea is that the trees compete f…

Did you even read your own links? They are carefully preparing soil and planting saplings, not randomly scattering seeds. The exact opposite of what gp is suggesting. They are planting in an intentional manner exactly as I said.

> carefully preparing soil and planting sapling

None of that is strictly necessary. While it helps, it's not a requirement. Simply selecting the right seeds, maximizing cover/photosynthesis, and perhaps mowing at the appropriate time are usually sufficient, unless the soil is seriously degraded.

https://www.amazon.com/Sowing-Seeds-Desert-Restoration-Ultim...

Fukuoka spent years working with people and organizations in Africa, India, Southeast Asia, Europe, and the United States, to prove that you could, indeed, grow food and regenerate forests with very little irrigation in the most desolate of places.

By randomly scattering seeds.

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#85

Post by asddubs »

atoav wrote: post #71

My brothers MA thesis was about comparing the multiple model forests that have been planted throughout the EUs different climate zones (I didn't even know such a thing existed, bur it makes sense). His focus was looking at resilience against weather, insects etc. and mixed forests fared significantly better throughout all climate zones. As someone from the alps, a thing that should not be forgotten is how important a…

You just have to look at how utterly the Harz pine forests have been completely destroyed by the bark beetle to see what monocultures get you. It's just huge swaths of lands filled with nothing but dead trees

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#86

Post by HarryHirsch »

asddubs wrote: post #85
atoav wrote: post #71

My brothers MA thesis was about comparing the multiple model forests that have been planted throughout the EUs different climate zones (I didn't even know such a thing existed, bur it makes sense). His focus was looking at resilience against weather, insects etc. and mixed forests fared significantly better throughout all climate zones. As someone from the alps, a thing that should not be forgotten is how important a…

You just have to look at how utterly the Harz pine forests have been completely destroyed by the bark beetle to see what monocultures get you. It's just huge swaths of lands filled with nothing but dead trees

There's the additional complication that when the beetle or the windstorm come there's suddenly an overabundance of wood on the market, which depresses prices. You'd need to do forest maintenance but cannot afford it, market forces are against it. It's like the Schweinezyklus but worse.

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#87

Post by MissingAFew »

rcostin2k2 wrote: post #48
swader999 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BC can have three our four species in play on the coast, interior and east typically has pine and spruce. You could argue for balsam but that is crap wood and it grows back on its own typically. I don't know about tropical reforestation, but in Canada the notion that we are replanting with only mono species isn't true. They leave seed trees standing and source cones directly from the logged blocks. It's very well don…

They grow faster but weaker, with lower density (cf. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.foreco.2018.07.045 )

I would suspect they would gradually evolve to grow stronger?

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#88

Post by taway_6PplYu5 »

adasdasdas wrote: post #80
llbeansandrice wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why did they plant only tree species that are frequently targeted for logging? Because the main purpose of replanting trees to is be able to harvest them again in the next few decades. Private land owners generally aren't interested in creating old-growth forests, they're trying to make money. It's not exactly ideal, but ending up with more biodiversity is likely a good thing even if it will be logged again later.…

Why do we want old growth forests over harvestable forests? Is there an ecological advantage

Actually I've heard that the best ecological and economic outcome is to manage an old growth forest and log it selectively using patterns that mimic tree loss from non-human activity.

Maximizing ecological advantage also maximizes economic advantage, even in the short-medium term.

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#89

Post by robocat »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #86
asddubs wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just have to look at how utterly the Harz pine forests have been completely destroyed by the bark beetle to see what monocultures get you. It's just huge swaths of lands filled with nothing but dead trees

There's the additional complication that when the beetle or the windstorm come there's suddenly an overabundance of wood on the market, which depresses prices. You'd need to do forest maintenance but cannot afford it, market forces are against it. It's like the Schweinezyklus but worse.

> Schweinezyklus

Translation is probably Boom-bust cycle (literal: swine cycle?)

https://dictionary.reverso.net/german-english/Schweinezyklus for some rather poor usage examples

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#90

Post by pstuart »

hosh wrote: post #33
atourgates wrote: post #25

I did a quick look to see if this only worked in tropical forests, or if this would be true in, say, Western North American forests. I didn't really find an answer. A study[1] in Virgina found that planting multiple varieties of trees was beneficial because it allowed the variety that was most suitable for that location to thrive, and survive problems that might affect other varieties. A study[2] in Washington State…

There’s a more thoughtful way of designing this. In the permaculture world, these would be called “guilds”. Species are selected with an understanding of canopy layers (so that plants don’t compete for sunlight and can still fill in spaces at each canopy layer), and ecological function (such as, nitrogen fixer, dynamic accumulators, pollinator attractors, habitats, etc) If you randomly mix up species in temperate for…

That seems quite reasonable -- I'm guessing the more challenging part is finding economic consensus with the landholders.
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